2nd hand car from dealer

**des8** · 25th June 2019, 18:24:PM

I think you will encounter certain difficulties if you initiate a court case rejecting the vehicle because you weren't informed it had been remapped.

First up you will probably have to explain to the judge what a remap is and what it does.
And the probability is the judge will not know what an ECU is or does, or even how an internal combustion engine works!

The remap was probably unknown to the dealer.
How old is vehicle, mileage and price paid?

As you have had the vehicle 5 months the dealer has the right to attempt to repair the vehicle, before your final right to reject is activated and if that right is exercised they have the right to deduct an amount for usage.

Better off claiming on the basis of the fault making the vehicle unsatisfactory, and it is deemed that faults occurring in the first 6 months were present when the car was delivered.

**JohnApple747** · 25th June 2019, 19:24:PM

Thank you for your reply,

If the re-map was unknown to the dealer - would that be something the judge would consider ?

In the letter from the lawyer they have stated that I have possession of documents relating to the re-map and were made available to me, and I am only raising an issue now after the fault. Does that mean they knew about it?

The right to deduct for usage will be a lot, as I have done a fair amount of miles in the car. So using HMRC value of £0.40 per mile, I stand to lose a lot of money.

Finally would it be better getting a quote from a garage to wipe the re-map and presenting that to the dealer and asking for them to pay for the fix?

I was under the impression it would be a fairly easy case in my favour (misinformed, spent a lot of money fixing the car without asking dealer to fix, would not have purchased if I knew about the re-map).

**des8** · 25th June 2019, 20:56:PM

I would go back to them and point out the CRA 2015 deems that faults discovered within the first 6 months were present at point of delivery.
In response to your rejection their correct response would be to point out they have a right to attempt a repair.
This has to be carried out at no cost to yourself, with as little inconvenience as possible and within a reasonable time.

There is no need for you to arrange a fix with any third party

**JohnApple747** · 26th June 2019, 08:57:AM

I know a lot of people make a mess of re-mapping a car, and only a handful of people can correct it. Which is why I would like it to be fixed at a certain place. So would they have to oblige to this? Or is it at their discretion?

Their response was the fault wasn’t present at delivery and it passed the MOT 4months after showing all is well, when in fact the MOT does not test the engine, gearbox or clutch functions.

Really appreciate your help.

**des8** · 26th June 2019, 09:49:AM

Firstly their response is b******s.
CRA 2015 Sec 19 (14) clearly states "..... goods which do not conform to the contract at any time within the period of six months beginning with the day on which the goods were delivered to the consumer must be taken not to have conformed to it on that day."
It doesn't matter if the fault wasn't evident at delivery, the act is clear.

If they want to repair they can arrange that, but if it fails you can reject.

Perhaps you could negotiate a price reduction (in other words a return of some of the purchase price) as per CRA 2015 19 (4) (b) and then have the remapping done yourself.

**JohnApple747** · 26th June 2019, 11:36:AM

Perfect, good to have a clear answer. There was a lot of confusing articles online regarding this issue.

Will write a response today with the points you have mentioned and will update you on what they say.

**JohnApple747** · 1st July 2019, 12:57:PM

Hi,

So I’ve had a letter back stating,

we see no cogent evidence to support your allegations

They want to see the mechanic report that I have

they made no assertion concerning the MOT test

I should re-consider their previous letter

and they are well aware of the law.

What would your advice be?

**des8** · 1st July 2019, 18:24:PM

This lawyer wouldn't happen to be Legal Solutions 4U?

Do you happen to have a mechanic's report? If so let them have sight of it.
If not remind them you are asserting the vehicle does not conform to contract due to a self evident fault.
If they are declining to repair it you will exercise your final right to reject.

**JohnApple747** · 1st July 2019, 20:26:PM

Hi,

I have a mechanics report that states that the fault is due to the re-map.

After letting them see this report, what would my next steps be, and for how long would you consider exchanging letters as they don’t seem to be budging from the fact that they see no evidence the fault was present when sold due to the fact I have been driving the vehicle.

If they stick to this argument. Would you advice court action ? And if so what would be the value one would be claiming for ?

**des8** · 1st July 2019, 20:59:PM

I'd give them a couple of weeks to respond.
The onus is on the defendant to prove the vehicle did conform to the contract when the vehicle was delivered.
You have an engineer's report stating the fault was caused by remapping, which you can show was done before you purchased it.
The fault was present when delivered, so now please arrange remap

IF they refuse and it proceeds to court you claim price paid for vehicle and all subsequent costs eg engineers report, court fees .
If they look for usage deduction it should only be around 25p per mile

**Aukey** · 2nd July 2019, 05:52:AM

Simple things can make a car go into limp mode, re-maps are generally either for power or to smooth the car out and gain better fuel economy. A re-map is a good thing, makes the car run how it should be.

Any reason you wouldn't have bought it with a re-map? It was obviously a nice car that drove nice that you were happy with until you saw the bit of paper. A lot of places keep the original map and will revert it back for free.

Did you test drive more than 1 of the same model?

What is the fault making it go into limp mode? If the paper says it was mapped years ago, how does anyone know that original map hasn't been put back on since then. Did the mechanic check whether it was a standard map as he must be able to re-map to be able to see the map is still on there.

The mot would say the engine is running correctly through emissions which would have to be right to pass.

I agree with Des8 about the judge, on the other side of the coin if he did happen to know about re-maps then i think the questions above would be asked....

**JohnApple747** · 2nd July 2019, 21:11:PM

The re-map takes it out of the manufactures specification, more power/torque = more wear and tear on the components. The diagnostic 100% confirms the re-map is the issue as the ECU files have been tampered with, and the car enters limp mode as its being asked more than it was designed for. If the original map was put on, then this error would not be occurring.

My argument to them is, the fault has occurred due to the re-map, I have only noticed when driving the car hard. I would not have brought the vehicle if I knew.

However I've spent a lot of money and time on the car and, I'd be more than happy for the re-map to be taken off and the car to be put back to stock, but at a garage of my choice.

Do you think I should state that in my letter back?

**des8** · 2nd July 2019, 21:25:PM

You can suggest it, but they may insist on choosing where.
If they do exercise their right, there is nothing preventing you having their work checked.

As an alternative you could try and negotiate a price reduction

**Aukey** · 3rd July 2019, 05:16:AM

I understand what a re-map is and does, the point i was trying to make is what the fault actually is as to how the garage may argue it. If they say the map has been on there years plus the time you've had it without an issue then i'm guessing they would argue that isn't what caused the fault. Like i say, if they have a computer that can tell what an original map is against the map you have on there then they must be able to change it, ordinary diagnostics won't show up a different map.

More wear and tear on components won't be any different if driven as it should be.

What car is it and what is the fault occurring? I ask that as to how much a map would cost them if they agreed, a few hundred quid give or take depending on car. Maybe price it up and see if they will give you some money back or at least some of it if you want to keep the car.

Is the place that did the map local to you? If it is can you not give them a call and see if they will put the original map back on for you? A lot of places keep the original maps in case it wants putting back on. They must be an alright place if it's been fine for years so worth an ask, obviously if they're miles away that won't help.

2nd hand car from dealer