• Welcome to the LegalBeagles Consumer and Legal Forum.
    Please Register to get the most out of the forum. Registration is free and only needs a username and email address.
    REGISTER
    Please do not post your full name, reference numbers or any identifiable details on the forum.

Civil Enforcement LTD PCN - From Court to Small Claims Track. Advice Needed.

Collapse
Loading...
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Civil Enforcement LTD PCN - From Court to Small Claims Track. Advice Needed.

    In March 2018 I received a PCN from CEL for an overstay in a 30 minute FREE CarPark of 16 minutes according to the ANPR cameras that photographed me going in at a said time and exiting 46 mins later.
    I ignored their continued letters as they supposedly passed the claim to the debt collectors while all the time increasing the fine, until finally a County Court Business Centre Claim came through.
    I disputed their claim with the following defence:
    "The Claimant issued a Parking Charge Notice Ref: XXXXXXXXX stating that vehicle WXXX RXX had been recorded via their automatic number plate recognition system and that the ‘Payment
    (was) not made in accordance with terms displayed on signage’ The Claimant states that on the 18/3/2018, the ANPR cameras monitored the vehicle entering the car park at 15:30:46 and exiting the car
    park at 16:16:51. The Claimant claims the sum of £193.93 plus Court Fee & Legal Representative’s costs. A Total Amount of £268.93. It should be noted that the car park in question is a FREE car Park for the first 30 minutes, and then £1.00 for the subsequent 2 hours of parking.
    As the previous registered keeper of the vehicle, (I am no longer keeper) I wish to refute The Claimant’s charges on the following grounds:
    1) Grace Period: BPA Code of Practice – non-compliance
    The BPA’s Code of Practice (13) states that there are two grace periods: one at the end (of a minimum of 10 minutes) and one at the start (of a minimum of 10 minutes)
    BPA’s Code of Practice (13.1) states that: “If a driver is parking without your permission, or at locations where parking is not normally permitted they must have the chance to read the terms and
    conditions before they enter into the ‘parking contract’ with you. If, having had that opportunity, they decide not to park but choose to leave the car park, you must provide them with a reasonable grace period to leave, as they will not be bound by your parking contract.” BPA’s Code of Practice (13.2) states that: “If the parking location is one where parking is normally permitted, you must allow the driver a reasonable grace period in addition to the parking event before enforcement action is taken. In such instances the grace period must be a minimum of 10 minutes.” BPA’s Code of Practice (13.4) states that: “You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action. If the location is one where parking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the end of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes.” The BPA Code of Practice clearly states that the a ‘reasonable grace period’ after entering the car park should be a minimum of 10 minutes and the reasonable grace period to leave the car park after the parking contract has ended should be a minimum of 10 minutes. Kelvin Reynolds, Head of Public Affairs and Policy at the British Parking Association (BPA): “The BPA’s guidance specifically says that there must be sufficient time for the motorist to park their car, observe the signs, decide whether they want to comply with the operator’s conditions and either drive away or pay for a ticket.” “No time limit is specified. This is because it might take one person five minutes, but another person 10 minutes depending on
    various factors, not limited to disability.” In the case in question the claimed period of parking of a total of 46 minutes, was not in breach of the terms and conditions. 30 minutes of FREE parking and a total of 20 minutes MINIMUM grace period would permit a minimum stay of 50 minutes. The grace period in this case is required for finding a space, park, locate and read signage, given the failure to make signs visible from all parking spaces (which they are not), read the full terms and conditions and then the time taken to exit from the car park at the end of the parking period.
    2) The Charge is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss. The Claimant states that the charge is for ‘failure to comply with the terms & conditions’ so The Claimant must prove the charge to be a genuine pre-estimate of loss. As parking was FREE for the first 30 minutes, there can be no loss to The Claimant, and therefore no loss flowing from the parking event. The Claimant cannot demonstrate any initial quantifiable loss. The parking charge must be an estimate of likely losses flowing from the alleged breach in order to be potentially enforceable.Where there is an initial loss directly caused by the presence of a vehicle in breach of the conditions (e.g. loss of revenue from failure to pay a tariff) this loss will be obvious. An initial loss is fundamental to a parking charge and, without it, costs incurred by issuing the parking charge notice cannot be said to have been caused by the driver’s alleged breach. Heads of cost such as normal operational costs and tax-deductible back office functions, debt collection, etc. cannot possibly flow as a direct consequence of this parking event. The Claimant would have been in the same position had the parking charge notice not been issued, and would have had many of the same business overheads even if no vehicles breached any terms at all. Given that The Claimant charge the same lump sum for a 30 minute overstay as they would for 3 hour overstay, and the same fixed charge applies to any alleged contravention (whether serious/damaging or trifling), it is clear there has been no regard paid to establishing that this charge is a genuine pre-estimate of loss caused by this alleged incident in this car park.
    3) No Evidence of Period Parked – Notice to Keeper does not meet PoFA 2012 requirements
    Contrary to the mandatory provisions of the BPA Code of Practice, there is no record to show that the vehicle was actually parked versus attempting to read the terms and conditions before deciding
    against parking or remaining, & the subsequent time taken to exit the car park. By virtue of the nature of an ANPR system recording only entry and exit times, The Claimant have not definitively stated the period of actual parking.
    4) The ANPR system is neither reliable nor accurate.
    The Claimant’s Notice to Keeper provides no evidence of the time the vehicle was parked, merely two photos of the car claiming to be images of arrival and departure. There is no identifiable connection to the car park in question, nor do the photos show a time of arrival or departure. It is unreasonable for this operator to record the start of ‘parking time’ as the moment of arrival in the car park if they offer a pay and display system which the driver can only access after parking and which is when the clock in fact starts. The exit photo is not evidence of ‘parking time’ either & has not been shown to be synchronised to the pay and display machine clock nor even to relate to the same parking event that day.

    In conclusion I contend that if the vehicle was in fact parked for the period stated by the Claimant, it clearly was not in breach of the parking terms and conditions, as it was in accordance with the
    Grace Period permitted by the BPA Code of Practise.

    I contend that it is wholly unacceptable to rely on unclear photos that provide no evidence of date, time or location in an attempt to profit by charging a disproportionate sum where no loss has
    been caused as parking was FREE anyway.

    I put The Claimant to strict proof to justify their claim, under the circumstances described. I respectfully request that based on the information provided, that my appeal is upheld and the charge is dismissed.
    Yours sincerely. xxxxxxxxxx (The Defendant)"

    The County Court subsequently acknowledged my defence and said they would put it to CEL.

    I have now received "Notice of Proposed Allocation to the Small Claims Track It states:

    1. This is now a defended claim . The defendant has filed a defence.
    2. It appears that this case is suitable for allocation to the small claims track.
    If you believe that this track is not the appropriate track for the claim, you must complete box C1 on the Small Claims Questionnaire N180 explaining why.
    3. I must complete the Small Claims Directions Questionnaire (Form N180) and file it with the court office and serve copies on all other parties by 8th April.
    (Yes, I realise that is Monday. Not sure where the time has disappeared to)

    It states that mediation is available free of charge through HM courts & Tribunals Service. I have said YES to mediation.

    I have completed and sent the Directions Questionnaire as per the info in the Shortcuts on the site. Is there anything else I should know or do in reference to the Small Claims Track. What should I expect now?

    Thank you for your advice.

    Last edited by NellieT; 5th April 2019, 17:33:PM.
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Wow. What an excellent and well argued case of self defence. Are there any precedence where previous rulings by Court can be quoted? Has this Parking Company any complaints raised by others in forums etc? Good luck.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Miya View Post
      Wow. What an excellent and well argued case of self defence. Are there any precedence where previous rulings by Court can be quoted? Has this Parking Company any complaints raised by others in forums etc? Good luck.
      There are loads of County Court judgments which support the Defendant's case.....they're not precedents, of course, but another CC judge's ratio can be highly persuasive.
      But CEL are unlikely to succeed because
      a/ 20 mins 'grace' (10 on entry, 10 on exit) are the industry 'norms', embodied in both Codes of Practice.
      b/ CEL routinely fold at the allocation stage of court claims.(Obviously, no guarantees of this from me.)

      2) The Charge is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss. The Claimant states that the charge is for ‘failure to comply with the terms & conditions’ so The Claimant must prove the charge to be a genuine pre-estimate of loss. As parking was FREE for the first 30 minutes, there can be no loss to The Claimant, and therefore no loss flowing from the parking event. The Claimant cannot demonstrate any initial quantifiable loss. The parking charge must be an estimate of likely losses flowing from the alleged breach in order to be potentially enforceable.Where there is an initial loss directly caused by the presence of a vehicle in breach of the conditions (e.g. loss of revenue from failure to pay a tariff) this loss will be obvious. An initial loss is fundamental to a parking charge and, without it, costs incurred by issuing the parking charge notice cannot be said to have been caused by the driver’s alleged breach. Heads of cost such as normal operational costs and tax-deductible back office functions, debt collection, etc. cannot possibly flow as a direct consequence of this parking event. The Claimant would have been in the same position had the parking charge notice not been issued, and would have had many of the same business overheads even if no vehicles breached any terms at all. Given that The Claimant charge the same lump sum for a 30 minute overstay as they would for 3 hour overstay, and the same fixed charge applies to any alleged contravention (whether serious/damaging or trifling), it is clear there has been no regard paid to establishing that this charge is a genuine pre-estimate of loss caused by this alleged incident in this car park.
      3) No Evidence of Period Parked – Notice to Keeper does not meet PoFA 2012 requirements
      GPEOL arguments have been made much harder due to the Beavis/ParkingEye Supreme Court case, but can still 'fly' in certain circumstances.
      It is not quite the 'magic bullet' that private parking co's mistakenly seem to think.
      CAVEAT LECTOR

      This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

      You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
      Cohen, Herb


      There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
      gets his brain a-going.
      Phelps, C. C.


      "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
      The last words of John Sedgwick

      Comment

      View our Terms and Conditions

      LegalBeagles Group uses cookies to enhance your browsing experience and to create a secure and effective website. By using this website, you are consenting to such use.To find out more and learn how to manage cookies please read our Cookie and Privacy Policy.

      If you would like to opt in, or out, of receiving news and marketing from LegalBeagles Group Ltd you can amend your settings at any time here.


      If you would like to cancel your registration please Contact Us. We will delete your user details on request, however, any previously posted user content will remain on the site with your username removed and 'Guest' inserted.

      Announcement

      Collapse
      1 of 2 < >

      SHORTCUTS


      First Steps
      Check dates
      Income/Expenditure
      Acknowledge Claim
      CCA Request
      CPR 31.14 Request
      Subject Access Request Letter
      Example Defence
      Set Aside Application
      Directions Questionnaire



      If you received a court claim and would like some help and support dealing with it, please read the first steps and make a new thread in the forum with as much information as you can.





      NOTE: If you receive a court claim note these dates in your calendar ...
      Acknowledge Claim - within 14 days from Service

      Defend Claim - within 28 days from Service (IF you acknowledged in time)

      If you fail to Acknowledge the claim you may have a default judgment awarded against you, likewise, if you fail to enter your defence within 28 days from Service.




      We now feature a number of specialist consumer credit debt solicitors on our sister site, JustBeagle.com
      If your case is over £10,000 or particularly complex it may be worth a chat with a solicitor, often they will be able to help on a fixed fee or CFA (no win, no fee) basis.
      2 of 2 < >

      Support LegalBeagles


      Donate with PayPal button

      LegalBeagles is a free forum, founded in May 2007, providing legal guidance and support to consumers and SME's across a range of legal areas.

      See more
      See less

      Court Claim ?

      Guides and Letters
      Loading...



      Search and Compare fixed fee legal services and find a solicitor near you.

      Find a Law Firm


      Working...
      X