Ex taking me to court over a car - wants 5 x more money not car back!

[Amethyst]

Particulars from claim form - this is second claim form as first was rejected as it was entered in his personal name, this is entered in his companies name.



Brief details of claim
Vehicle xxxxxxxxxxxxx registration xxxxxxxxxxx was taken by my ex partner xxxxx without my consent on the 7/6/15. The vehicle in question was purchased by my company XXXX for £3600 and I have tried on several occassions at first to try and get my car back but this has come to no avail.Its now been over three years and I am still no further down the line and with the car in question obviously devalued and in nowhere near the condition it was in whilst in my possession I feel that after sending XXXX numerous emails and recorded letters that I'm not getting anywhere in seeking my money back that is owed to my business.

Particulars of claim
My company xxxxxxxx Ltd purchased xxxxxxxxxx the vehicle was then fully (unreadable) my myself and advertised on ebaymotorspro where all my vehchles are listed as I am an idependant vat registered motor trader.... the vehicle was placed for sale at £5495 as a retail price but the purchase cost was £3611 for the XXXXX however on the 7/6/15 I split with my ex partner xxxxxxxxxxxx and she took the vehcle in question without my consent along with the log book service book pack and spare key. At the time I was in shock and because we had children together LET HER USE THE CAR temporarily as she was supposedly going to be using her sons car that he was not using at the time and is still not using as the vehicle is sitting on xxxxxxxxxx drive still to this day. I have contacted xxxxxxx constantly about giving the car back or paying the purchase price and at first she said when she gets her sons car MOTd I would get my car back but has obviously never materialised My last actual response from xxxxxxxxxx was a reply to an email on 23/1/18 where xxxxxxxxxxxx states "you can have your car back when I find us another one". Please see copy of document enclosed. I have also sent recorded letters to xxxxxxxxx house and in one stating that I will give her 14 days to respond as to how I am going to reimbursed but I have since had no reply. Unfortuantely I can no longer afford to lose the money. Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx has had a massive impact on my business and I owe investors money that I in turn have to pay back. I also enclosed purchase invoice copies of emails and copies of letter sent to XXXXXXXXXX as further evidence to my claim as it has now been over 3 yearsand I am no further in getting my money back and the car has now devalued massively.

[Amethyst]

Goodness only knows why he's got his mum involved to make a statement of truth saying she lent him the money when her own evidence ( bank statement ) shows clearly the cash being put into her account the day before the purchase was made - as it is completely irrelevant.

[des8]

PoCs a trifle contradictory:
"she took vehicle without my consent but on next line "let her use the car temporarily"
So instead of reporting it stolen to the police he gives retrospective permission.(so he has consented to OP's possession!)

I do wonder about when a return was first requested.(was it April 2017?)
Possibly the court could find that the vehicle should have been returned at that time and so order it returned now plus an allowance for depreciation since April 2017 (which I think is what you were suggesting Ame)

[Amethyst]

V5 is in OP's name.

Yes April 2017 seems to be when he first asked for it back.

And yes re the depreciation since April 2017 and hand the car back - or, as he hasn't actually asked for the car back, keep the car and pay him the value it was in April 2017 for it ?


It has now done 101k miles ( actually say 112k now as that was last april) - when purchased in 2015 it had 64k miles on it. In 2017 it had 88k miles on. Seems to be worth about £1.6k now.

[des8]

When was registration changed to OP?

Whilst not evidence of ownership, if it was put into her name when first purchased it could be indicative of an intention for her to use it on a permanent basis.
If it was in her name driving it under the traders policy was even more dodgy!!

[Amethyst]

Not sure, the previous registered keeper is the person who owned it before it went to Auction - Jules says though that traders don't show as previous owners ? I'll check with OP tmw when the V5 was changed... can't see a date but only have the front sheet. She did get car insurance in her name in Sept 2015, so possible thats when she sorted the V5. Will find out tmw.

[des8]

If OP did not transfer V5 to her own name obtaining insurance for her would have been difficult.
It isn't impossible for a person to insure a car they don't own or isn't at least registered in their own name as there are a few companies who will do it if there is a good reason eg AVIVA insure me to drive a friend's car (his licence revoked for medical reasons and so can't insure it himself & my little 2 seater isn't suitable to convey him)

That attachment certainly gives the impression that it is her car, or at least on permanent loan.

[Amethyst]

So in telling her to insure the car herself, he is by default telling her to have the car registered in her own name, and thus, as there was no mention of returning the car until 2 years later, it was reasonable of her that in doing as instructed, she was accepting the car as a gift ?

The other side is, did he have the right to gift it to her, as it was purchased in the company name? ( some doubt as to whether it went through the books as it was purchased through his mums bank account )

1. The facts contained in this Witness Statement are true to the best of my knowledge. Where I refer to information supplied by others, the source of the information is identified; facts and matters derived from other sources are true to the best of my knowledge and belief.
2. Mr xxxxxxxxx is the director of xxxxxxxxxx Trading Ltd, the Claimant in this case. The business is a second hand car trader.
3. Mr xxxxxxxxxand I were in a relationship for 20 years and have two children.
4. In 2007 we purchased a property together as a family home.
5. In 2008 I sold my previous property and provided the equity released to Mr xxxxxxfor the benefit of the business, which was to be a family business.
6. The business was the primary source of income for the family however Mr xxxxxxxxxxx is the sole director of the business.
7. Throughout our relationship Mr xxxxxxxprovided vehicles purchased at Auction to me for use generally. I had sole use of these cars and treated them as my own. Mr xxxxxarranged MOT, Insurance, Tax for the vehicles through that period.
8. In March 2015 Mr xxxxxx purchased the vehicle, xxxxcarxxxxx from the BCA Auction in xxxxxx for £3611. The cars mileage at the time of purchase was 64,000.
9. He gave me permission to use the vehicle and I began using the car on a regular basis and treating it as my own.
10. In July 2015 Mr xxxxxxx was arrested by the police for assault and the Police advised that I leave the family home.
11. I took, what I considered to be, my car with me.
12. In September 2015 Mr xxxxxxx contacted me to inform me that I needed to sort out my own insurance for the car in the future. He did not request return of the vehicle or give any indication that he did not consider the car to belong to me. ((((( CONSIDERED GIFT ? ))))
13. I therefore completed the V5 logbook to change the registered keeper to myself and insured the car with ASDA/Ageas ( EXHIBIT X ) with myself as the only driver, ensured it was taxed and MOT’d, and continued using the car as my own vehicle.I have renewed the car insurance, tax, MOT and maintained the vehicle as my own since then ( EXHIBITS X,X,X )
14. On 24^th April 2017 I received an email from Mr xxxxxxxx( EXHIBIT X ) which informed me he was filing a small claims court order for the car. This was the first time Mr xxxxxxxgave any indication that he did not consider the car to be mine.
15. Current car value - current car mileage.

[R0b]

I'm not ignoring this, just lurking in the background to understand what's really gone on - will post my thoughts when I come to a conclusion.

[des8]

As Jules points out traders do not transfer cars purchased in the course of business to their own name (as it only adds another name to the list of owners and devalues it!)
In telling OP to obtain her own insurance for the vehicle Mr A is implicitly instructing her to transfer registration to herself and almost by default acknowledging that the vehicle was already de facto hers.


I suspect some of his business activities (insurance and tax) are a little questionable!

[Amethyst]

Indeed, but irrelevant really I think.

Thanks Des for your help, and thanks R0b for having a look over it.

Basically, family ran a car business and occassionally used cars from the lot as their own. The car that was being used as the family car at the time of the breakup was taken by the OP. After two months she did the V5 and insured it herself on Mr A's request and has used it/maintained it etc ever since as her own. 2 years later, during financial settlement proceedings re thefamily home ( and business premises as it happens) , Mr A decided to tell her she'd nicked the car and should pay for it .... and then we're here 4 years after first getting the car with a court hearing in under a month for a claim for MR A claiming the original purchase price plus 8% interest from date of purchase from the OP.

[Parmesan]

In the order from the court is this...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]n1453290[/ATTACH]

don't know if that is relevant.


This is a very good point....surely I can use this. The court order was dated July 2017. He filed a claim August 2018?

[des8]

The POC states inter alia "a reply to an email on 23/1/18 where xxxxxxxxxxxx states "you can have your car back when I find us another one".
If that email exists it does indicate that OP was aware the car did not belong to her, but was possibly on extended loan.

[Parmesan]

Des8, there is an email unfortunately, I said it out of rage and to satisfy him at the time. His business was a shambles and he was always using personal account for business transactions and vice versa

[Parmesan]

The invoice from BCA for the car has the company name on but our home address and the business isn't registered or run from our home address according to companies house or his advertisements, does that make any difference?