Ex taking me to court over a car - wants 5 x more money not car back!

[Parmesan]

Hi,So sorry this is quite long, Im new to this site and would be very grateful if anyone could offer some advice on a small
claims matter.


I left my ex partner in July 2015 due to controlling coercive behaviour which later turned abusive, he was arrested and I was advised to leave by police whilst he was still at the police station.

In August 2017 he decided to take me to court for the car I left in nearly 2 years after.This was purely down to the fact that we were going to court over the house we had bought together. I had been to court and had an order to sell so I could house our children. He was angry that the house had been reduced so this was his recompense.


He said that I stole the car from his business. He is a second hand car trader and the car was given to me at the time to drive our kids around in but was bought from the auction where he buys his cars from. We were not married but together 20 yrs, bought a house together, had 2 kids,

His first application to court was in his personal name but he said his company bought the car and it was advertised on ebay motors to sell.He said that I took the car without his consent with the log book etc and because we had kids let me use the car temporary He mentions that I had said I was going to use my sons car that sits on my drive which is a lie He mentions emails sent to me
and me not responding and that he can't afford to loose the money and its had a massive impact on his business and he owes investors money. Were talking about a £3611 car! He has added interest and wants nearly £5k for a car that's probably worth around £1K now. This car has been used to drive his children to and from school (300 miles a week! ) so they wouldn't have to move schools!

The court wrote back asking that the application name be changed as well as the contents to show who was taking me to court. was it his business or him basically. he then sent another application but only changed the name and left the content the same.The court then wrote back and said:

unless the claimant does by 7th march pay to the court the trial fee of £170 or file a properly completed application (i.e one which provides all the required info in the manner requested) for help with fees, then the claim will be struck out with effect from 7th March without further order and unless the court orders otherwise.
On the back of this letter it reads:
that each party has to deliver to the other party and to court all documents that they intended to rely on in court by 4th March.

What does this actually mean? I read it as though he either files a proper claim form making clear who is taking me to court or pays £170 for a hearing? One or the other, if he changes his statement, they will consider a decision without a court hearing?

I received a new bundle from him on the deadline and there was fresh evidence with his mums bank a/c statement showing that the car had been bought by her and a witness statement from her saying that she had bought the car and had a verbal agreement with him - the director of (company) that on the sale would receive back monies plus 20% commission on any profit and she would now like the return of £3611. This is utter rubbish, His mum opened an account for him to use which to hide his income and on the statement it shows that cash had been paid in for the sum of £3600 the day before the car
was bought at auction. There was also other entries for a car deposit and another car bought from the auction.

He didn't want a hearing initially and wanted the judge to decide without one but the court gave us a hearing date anyway. so he's altered his statement which now says 'that i ______ director of _________ purchased a car from the auction. BUT he didn't, evidence suggests that his mum did??

I am totally confused. Can he take me to court? or does his mum have to? He hasn't paid a court fee yet, will it get chucked out on the 7th if he hasn't paid this? Or does his new evidence superseed this and this will then be looked at without a hearing again?

I hope this makes sense, any advice would be so gladly received, thank you so much.

[Amethyst]

Have you submitted anything to court yet ? Defence / Directions Questionnaire / Witness Statement etc ?

( Just checking as so far you only mention him having made applications - did he issue a court claim through Moneyclaimonline? )

[Parmesan]

Yes I submitted a defence after his first application, this included the situation that I was in and that this was typical of his behaviour because of the house etc. I submitted evidence of car insurance, MOT's and repair bills for the car to show that I had had this car since being given in 2015 and evidence of the current court order for the house and emails from him suggesting that if I agree on the house that he would drop the car case.
He used N244 application to small claims

[Amethyst]

I submitted evidence of car insurance, MOT's and repair bills for the car to show that I had had this car since being given in 2015 and evidence of the current court order for the house and emails from him suggesting that if I agree on the house that he would drop the car case.

Was that as part of your witness statement that you sent to court, and to him, before the 4th March ?

Just want to make sure exactly where you are procedure wise.

Was his application asking for summary judgment / to strike out your defence / amend his claim ?

He has to pay the hearing fee of £170 before 7th March.

[Parmesan]

yes that was within my witness statement for defence. This was all sent off in August 18, the judge then came back in Nov asking that he substitute the owner of the vehicle as claimant in accordance with CPR19.2 AND 19.4 by Nov or the claim will be struck out.

He then changed the name of the claimant into his business name but didn't change the contents of the application so the judge then sent more
paperwork which said
claimant has permission to amend its name to ______ in place of ________ claimiant has permission to re-serve the claim form on the defendant by 14 days and the particulars of claim must however also be amended to reflect who now is bringing the claim (currently here are with references to 'my ex partner 'I' and 'my company'.
defendant has permission if so advised to file and serve an amended defence by no later that 14 days after service of the amended claim and particulars upon her.
This order was made without a hearing. Any party affected by it may apply within 7 days of service for it to be set aside varied or stayed.

He didn't change the particulars so we then received the notice of allocation to the small claims track (hearing) with the direction of
Unless the claimant does pay the court trial fee or file a property completed application, with required information in the manner requested then it will be struck out


I didn't expect him to have extra evidence from his mother that shows that the car was purchased from her account or a witness statement from her suggesting that she lent him this money and wants it back and his claim is still using I _____ director of ______ purchased a car, then says that it was paid in full by his mother who was loaning the company money to purchase the car and a verbal agreement was made that when the car was sold she would be paid back plus commission. It says I took the car from our family home without consent. It says that we both agreed that I could temporarily use the car which again is rubbish

[Parmesan]

I have only sent one lot of documents which I sent as my defence and these were to court and not to him. The court then sent him the paperwork.
the only other paperwork from him as just been sent which adds evidence to his claim. I haven't had a chance to reply to this. I didn't change any paperwork that I had sent because he didn't change his (only the name of the claimant) so do I get a chance to reply to his latest paperwork?

[Amethyst]

Ok you have filed a Defence.

Have you provided a Witness Statement just before the 4th March ?

sorry I know it's terminology - a claim is different to an application and a defence is different to a witness statement etc - I just want to make sure that YOU have complied with the order that had the below on by sending a Witness Statement - as if you haven't we've got a bit of work to do tonight

Unless the claimant does pay the court trial fee or file a property completed application, with required information in the manner requested then it will be struck out

That quoted sentence only means that if he doesn't pay the court fee by the 7th, OR an application for fee remission, it'll be struck out. It's a standard wording for these hearing date orders and simply means he has to pay by the 7th, whether in cash or by claiming poverty.

[Amethyst]

I have only sent one lot of documents which I sent as my defence and these were to court and not to him. The court then sent him the paperwork.
the only other paperwork from him as just been sent which adds evidence to his claim. I haven't had a chance to reply to this. I didn't change any paperwork that I had sent because he didn't change his (only the name of the claimant) so do I get a chance to reply to his latest paperwork?

Okay so you just filed a Defence. We need to do a WS then. Any chance you can do a photo of the claim, anything else he submitted, and his Witness Statement and your defence, and send it to me (admin@legalbeagles.info ) and I'll try give you a hand to get this done and in asap.

There are some examples of Witness Statements here so you have an idea what's needed - https://legalbeagles.info/forums/for...ness-statement

[Parmesan]

I don't understand why I have to file a witness statement

[Amethyst]

I know... those letters are worded terribly.... can you take pics of the letter that has the hearing date, and stuff about the £170 court fee on please .... all pages xxx

It'll be a bit like this but different ... anyway witness statement instruction usually on second page https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/735/32...beaa9f8b_c.jpg

You should be fine as you already sent some documents in with the Defence but it's best to try keep up with the courts orders, if that is what they've ordered.

[Parmesan]

So what needs to go into the witness statement? The same as my defence? as if this is the case then I can just forward what I have already done?

[Amethyst]

Docs received and will go through them shortly

This is the WS order - I wish the court would sort these orders out as there's so many people don't see the directions. Not your fault xxxx

[Amethyst]

Ok, this is the situation - probably need an input from R0b or des8 ref legal ownership of the car.

The car was purchased by Mr A at a BCA auction in the name of his Ltd company.

The car was paid for on a debit card in his mum's name ( for reasons I don't understand he put money into his mum's account in cash the day before he paid for the car by debit card - he also did the same a week earlier to buy another car from BCA )

The car was used by the OP to run children around etc. She was insured as a named driver on Mr A's traders insurance ( seems they often generally used cars that were purchased for the business as general family vehicles )

Mr A was arrested for assault on the OP ( coercive control turned violence )

While in custody the Police advised her to leave the property, so she put kids and stuff in the Car and left. This was in 2015.

A few months later Mr A contacted her to say his traders insurance was cancelled so she would have to insure the car herself. So she did.

He did not ask for the car back, and since that point all maintenance, MOT, tax, insurance has been paid for by the OP.

OP has the logbook ( in OPs name )

3 years later Mr A and OP are in court over their family home. OP ends up with a Sale Order over the property and Mr A ends up with a share of the equity and isn't very pleased, reduces his child maintenance etc ( irrelevant really but shows the thinking behind this claim )

In the order from the court is this...


don't know if that is relevant.

Mr A's company has now issued a court claim against the OP - not for return of the car - but for the original purchase price plus the profit he lost from not having sold it at the time ( weirdly he still has it up for sale at the original price ) saying that the company owes his mum the money for the car ( which is quite obviously untrue as he paid the same amount of money into the account after buying the car before paying for it ) - sadly he's got his mum to write a witness statement confirming that she lent the business the money and attaching her bank statement ( showing her account is used by Mr A for trading as theres also car deposits) - probably irrelevant too but shows he and his mum appear to have not been fully honest in their witness statements.


so, question, what are the relevant points we need so as to determine whether the car belongs to the OP or if it still belongs to the company ? (if it ever did - the purchase invoice from BCA is in the companies name )

[des8]

It seems to me that the car was owned by the limited company as it was purchased by the company at auction.

It was then driven by OP with permission of the company.
This must have been expressly given as she was told of the need to take out insurance in her own name.
Assuming that it is still registered in the company name, and there is no other evidence, I would consider that OP would have to return the vehicle when requested.

Op was not party to the manner of financing the car's purchase, that was between the company and the exes mother and wouldn't affect ownership of vehicle.

As a side issue I wonder if the issuers of the traders policy were aware the insurance cover was being used for domestic purposes.
Trader's policies normally (I can't think of any exceptions but have been out of the business for some years) cover for additional drivers only whilst in course of business. Possibly OP was driving uninsured!

[Amethyst]

Thank you Des - I was thinking along those lines - the company owns the vehicle and the OP has been using it with permission.

The claim therefore should be for return of the car ? rather than for the original purchase price ? Or at most for the current value of car (or as OP was using it with permission until he first asked for its return in April 2017 ?)

This is the POC - typed in next post