Old CCJ's not known about until now - very worried

[NeedHelp13]

I'm really hoping that someone can help please.

Recently my partner received letters from a firm of solicitors acting on behalf of Arrow saying that they had secured CCJ's against him and that they were now looking at taking enforcement action.

He knew nothing about this, so he wrote back to them asking for details of the CCJ's and they have responded saying that because there is no written signature on his letter, they cannot communicate any further?! What?!

Anyway in the meantime I have checked with Trustonline and there are in fact two CCJ's registered against him at an old address, both dated 2014.

From what I can gather after discussing this with him, he was in quite a bad place a few years ago and simply ignored anything and everything for a number of years. So the chances of getting these set aside I think would be pretty slim (from what I have read, plus we can't afford the £510 fee for the two). The problem is that these are large amounts, circa £14k total and he simply cannot pay these debts, so we have been speaking to Stepchange about his options.

We have tried to contact the court for details of the CCJ's but have been unable to get through (we both work full time and they only open 9 - 5)

So we are now getting very worried that enforcement action may be taken whilst we are still trying to pull budgets together and get all of the information that we need. The end result will probably be a DRO / bankruptcy because as I say, he has no way of paying that amount of money before retirement! His credit is basically non-existant anyway and there may well be other debts that crop up when we start digging deeper into this

My question is what do we need to do in the meantime to stop this escalating? Stepchange suggested an N245 form to offer token payments until we can get a full picture of the situation - but do we contact the court directly to arrange that?

As I say, we have only become aware of this in the last week or two and have hardly slept since because we are extremely worried.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[Amethyst]

The address that the CCJ's were registered at in 2014 - was that the address he was living at in 2014 ?

I agree a N245 is the best bet to put off enforcement action ( and offer installments at an affordable amount set by the court.... but only IF you are not going to apply to set these aside.... could you be eligible for fee remission at all ( see EX160 form https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-tribunal-fees ) ?

What kind of debts were these?
What enforcement action are they threatening ?
Does he own a property ?

Ask to change the payments


You can ask to change the amount you pay per week or per month.

To do this, fill in the N245 application form.

Give details of your income and spending, and say how much you can realistically afford to pay.

You may have to pay a £50 court fee.

If your offer is rejected, the court will decide on the amount you have to pay.



If you’re threatened with bailiffs


The person or business you owe money to may use bailiffs to collect the money.

They’ll have to apply to the court for a ‘warrant’, which will give the bailiff the right to visit your home or property.

You’ll be given 7 days to pay before they visit.

You may be able to stop the bailiff from visiting, by filling in the N245 application form.

Say on the form how you’ll repay the money - eg weekly or monthly payments.

If your offer is accepted, the warrant will be stopped as long as you keep up with the payments.

[NeedHelp13]

Thank you for such a quick response!

He did live at that address in the past, but had moved out prior to the date of the CCJ's (although I guess no-one was notified).

The debts are stated as being loans, but because we can't get the CCJ details, we have no idea who the original lender is or any of the detail of where the amounts come from.....this is why we are really trying to get the details but are hitting a brick wall.

They have threatened either an attachment of earnings or bailiffs.

He doesn't own a property.

The thing is, he doesn't own anything really. He moved in with me and literally brought bags of clothes and that was it! So I am also worried about bailiffs turning up and taking my property

The thing is, if they do take action and send bailiffs.....would they come to the current address, or the address on the CCJ?

ETA: I just also wanted to add that I keep referring to this as "we" and "us". These debts are nothing to do with me, however my partner suffers from depression and he struggles to deal with things like this and understanding the terminology is a challenge for him, so I have been speaking to stepchange on his behalf and I am helping and guiding him as much as I can.

[Amethyst]

The court is terrible to call I know, but really it is the best way to get the information quickly so you can act on it. They would need to speak to him as the Defendant though, or at least have him with you when you call so he can give permission for you to speak on his behalf ( I do that with my other half - he talks, I say it's okay lol ) If you can't get through to them at Northampton business centre then you can write to Arrow in response to their letter asking for full details of the jugdments and original claims so you can consider whether to set aside or organise installments.

Does he have any idea what the loans might be ? Anything showing on his credit file at all ?

It sounds like Arrow have tracked him to your address hence receiving the letters about enforcement there, so if they did apply for a warrant it is likely to be at your address. You'd have to sign a statutory declaration to say none of the things in the property are his - but hopefully you shouldn't get to that as you'll get it sorted wayyyyy before.

Also, going forwards be careful you don't get any financial products in joint names as it may damage your own credit file.

[NeedHelp13]

LOL so glad I'm not the only one!! That's the difficulty we are having because we can't really call when we are together, but will have to keep trying.

There is no way that we can apply for a set aside, we can't afford the fee and are not entitled to help.

He did write back to them asking for details, but they responded by saying that because the letter is not signed by hand, they could not send any further information until they were sure it is the right person.....if they are not sure, threatening action seems a bit premature to be honest!
How do we respond to that? Does he have to send a signed letter?

There is nothing on his credit file because we entered his previous addresses covering the required period and you don't get the opportunity to enter address details going back further than that. He moved out of that address quite a few years ago, hence knowing nothing about the CCJ's. So again, we are waiting for the credit referencing agencies to respond to questions about how we add previous addresses more than six years old.

Nothing will be in joint names, I have been very careful to protect my credit and cannot have it ruined by this.

Thanks so much for your help, just getting some answers has really calmed me down

[Amethyst]

I'd just send a signed letter, if you are paranoid about doing so then just add an extra flourish or squiggle to the signature so it's obvious if anything is copied ( it won't be, it would simply be fraud and it just doesn't happen with bonafide debt companies like Arrow) It is a bit of a stall on their part but it is right under GDPR to check they are communicating with the right person.

Things on the credit file that defaulted over 6 years ago won't show on the credit file in anycase so there isn't much point fighting to get previous addresses over 6 years old added. I'd guess the debts defaulted sometime around 2008 - 2010 so that the claims were brought within 6 years in 2014. So they likely won't show on the credit file other than as the CCJs on the register in any event.

Does he have any idea at all what the original loans were / who with etc ?

What does Arrow actually say in their letter - is it simply a ' we've got these old CCJs and now we've found you you should really start paying something or we'll have to look at enforcement' type thing ? They are more likely to look at Attachment of Earnings than Bailiffs tbh, they can't obtain charging orders as he doesn't own a property, so really, if he's not going to set them aside, he can complete the N245, go through his income and expenditure ( accounting for his share of rent/bills etc and just his income ) and make an offer of installments. They'll just keep ticking over then and no enforcement action could take place unless those payments stopped. The N245 applications cost, I believe, £50 each. I really would try and get the original claim info first though just in case there are legitimate defences to the claims.

In the future if things improve he might be able to make full and final settlement offers to get them cleared, but they will fall off the register and his credit file in 2020 in any event.

[NeedHelp13]

Ok thanks, will write back again with a signature.

I will have to ask further about the details of who it may be etc....I can't ask him at the moment.

Yes, that is exactly what they are saying and we are currently working with Stepchange as they are helping us to complete the details for the N245. Based on a quick run through the budget, they suggested offering £1 payments for the time being with the possibility of looking at maybe a DRO / bankruptcy because he already has a minus figure at the end of his budget, even without these debts being added in so there is realistically no way that he can pay these debts in any sort of reasonable timeframe, if ever, unfortunately.

He really wants to avoid the attachment of earnings if at all possible as he has not long since started this job and this could mean he loses it again

So my final question (for the moment!) is should we contact Arrow and tell them this scenario and that he is unable to pay anything other than token payments, or just get the N245 done direct via the court and say nothing to Arrow? It seems crazy that they would try to enforce a debt and incur extra costs that they will simply never recover.

[NeedHelp13]

Bumped - apologies - Could anyone advise on the last question please (edited to bold in the post), we are struggling to get through to Stepchange at the moment and just want this bit clarified please.

[Amethyst]

I would go in the first instance to Arrow explaining the situation, that he was unaware of the Judgments as they were issued at a previous address, that he is considering either an application to pay by instalments or to set aside and therefore requires copies of the original claim and Judgment to consider his position further. He encloses a copy of his income and expenditure and asks they place the account on hold until he has received copies of the documents at which point he will be in a position to request their consent to set aside or make an offer to pay.

I wouldn't go directly in with an offer as there is the possibility of course that these judgments are not legitimatly his debts.

I suspect Stepchange will say just to bung in the N245 with the £1 offer, and that may be the end result, but I would at least try and get Arrow to justify their actions first and let it be known he's not just going to be walked over.

[NeedHelp13]

Thank you so much Amethyst, I really appreciate all the help you have given