Help required for Charging Order for council tax arrears.

[moatmeister]

Hi everyone

Got behind with my council tax after a period of illness. Council have obtained a liability order for it. Then issued an "order for recovery of award" by a "Proper Officer" on an N322 form. They are now going for a full charging order which I will contest.

I am now in a position to pay the council tax arrears but they will not accept a payment plan until or if the charging order is finalised.

My question is this. Even the court and the council was unsure of the answer:-

Will i get or have I already got a "CCJ" in a form that would affect my credit file?

The recovery of award was in September 17.

Thanks

[Kati]

tagging lgfa92 Crazy council ploddertom

[lgfa92]

A Charging Order is not a CCJ in itself - the Charging Order application under part 73.2 of CPR onwards requires either that, a) under the s1 of the Charging Orders Act 1979 a judgment has been granted (i.e. a CCJ) or b) an application is made under reg 50 of the Council Tax (administration & enforcement) regs 1992* before it can be applied for.

A Charging Order being issued is not therefore a CCJ or a liability order, it is an enforcement option which requires that a CCJ or a liability order is already in place therefore no CCJ should be registered for the issuing of the Charging Order itself. As far as I'm aware there is no public register of charging orders**, only the CCJ is recorded if that route had been used - Council Tax liability orders*** are not publicly registered like CCJ's so there's no public record of them and thus no public register of an application.


* an application under Reg 50 can only occur where a council tax liability order has been granted.
** other than looking at the particular land registry deeds.
*** liability orders are not therefore noted for credit reference purposes

[moatmeister]

Thanks

Is the "Order for recovery award" dated 8th Sept 17 a ccj?I have seen nothing else apart from the liability order. If they have that which itsself is a route to the charging order why would they also get a CCJ?

[moatmeister]

Also, there is nothing registered on registry trust even though they say it was issued 8th September, I have just checked.

Is that because it wont be registered until the process is complete or because I havnt got a CCJ?

[lgfa92]

Also, there is nothing registered on registry trust even though they say it was issued 8th September, I have just checked.

Is that because it wont be registered until the process is complete or because I havnt got a CCJ?

The registry trust only shows CCJ's - the charging order itself isn't a CCJ, it's a (possible) result of having a CCJ or a liability order. The route to a charging order via a liability order is an alternative route for which no is CCJ is required or issued.

Any charging order issued would be registered on the specific title deed for the property with the land registry.

[lgfa92]

Thanks

Is the "Order for recovery award" dated 8th Sept 17 a ccj?I have seen nothing else apart from the liability order. If they have that which itsself is a route to the charging order why would they also get a CCJ?

Your reference to an "Order for recovery of award" is odd - what is the court form number stated on the letter ?

[ploddertom]

Council Tax Liability Orders are not listed on your Credit History anywhere. The Council will have sought the CO as:
a - you must owe a fair bit
b - they will charge you for applying for it
c - will use it to enforce payment if you fail to keep to any arrangement made
d - will be removed when everything up to date and nothing owed

[lgfa92]

Council Tax Liability Orders are not listed on your Credit History anywhere. The Council will have sought the CO as:
a - you must owe a fair bit
b - they will charge you for applying for it
c - will use it to enforce payment if you fail to keep to any arrangement made
d - will be removed when everything up to date and nothing owed

The confusing addition to all of this is the OP's reference in post #4 to an 'Order for Recovery' - these are used for benefit recovery purposes and tribunal award recovery etc under CPR 70, not council tax arrears. They are also no CCJ's but allow enforcement with the permission of the court, including a charging order under CPR 73.

[moatmeister]

The form reference is N322 Order for recovery of award. It is in small print at the bottom left. Is that what you mean?

[lgfa92]

The form reference is N322 Order for recovery of award. It is in small print at the bottom left. Is that what you mean?

It is. That form's not required as part of the process for council tax recovery (it's used for benefit overpayment and tribunal cases - section 7.5 in link). For council tax recovery the liability order gives all the powers needed to apply for the charging order, there'd be no need to apply for an order using the N322 (for a start it would just duplicate a large part of the liability order powers).

[moatmeister]

Right then.

Thanks to LGFA 92 and others for your help this morning

Just got back from court. Managed to get the case for "objection to a charging order" adjourned for at least a month on a technicality of the service address. Now have time to look into this properly. Whilst it seems I do have a theoretical county court judgement, ie the illusive "Order for recovery of award by a proper person" made in the County Court, neither the judge nor the opposing solicitor, whilst agreeing it will be registered at the land registry, were completely unsure whether it was of the type of CCJ that is registered with Registry Trust, ie the sort that shows on your credit file and gives you a black mark with lenders.

Are you saying this has been incorrectly issued using the N322 form? I dont have anything to do with council tax benefit or housing benefit. If so is that grounds for a fight?

I did mention to the judge that as far as I was aware there was no reason to issue a CCJ if a liability order was in place. He said ( I think) that it depends which part of law they were using to get the enforcement and referred me to rule 73 of the 1998 act

The solicitor did say to me off the record that if a CCJ is not showing now after nearly 5 months, it probably wont be. Do you think that is correct? And if no one really knows on here, how can I find out? I could really do with knowing for definate so I can plan my next remortgaging move. However I learnt today that they have also informed the mortgage company that they are seeking a charging order. Would that have any detrimental effect on my ability to raise finance?

[lgfa92]

Assuming it's definitely for unpaid Council Tax. It worries me regarding the lack of knowledge out there regarding it(I know it's my day job and I've worked in it for a decade but...). I'd also be concerned at the court's lack of knowledge of their own system - I was just speaking to a solicitor I got a call from this morning about the lack of knowledge out there regarding council tax (his query was about enforcement as well, but not to do this with this side of it,and he openly admitted he didn't know the first thing about it as it was not his area).

I would argue the point as thus (deep breath);

A council tax liability is issued under reg 34 of the council tax (administration and enforcement) regs 1992. Obtaining the liability order allows a range of recovery options, including a charging order under reg 50 of the council tax (administration and enforcement) regs 1992. The Civil Procedure Rules, under CPR 73.2 , give the procedure for granting a charging order on two basis, s1 of the charging order act 1979 and the council tax (administration and enforcement) regs 1992. - Remember that CPR 73 deals with enforcement only, regardless of the type of order which is being used i.e. it's independent of whether it's made via CCJ, a form N322 or a liability order (the judge should be aware of that) - the enforcement comes after the order, not before. The key is however that the application must be correct before the charging order can be made.

S1 of the Charging Order Act 1979 does allow a charging order to be made on the back of any County or High Court order or judgment that allows recovery to be made. This section doesn't cover council tax, as it's an order made by the magistrates and not the county/high court - this is why CPR73.2 specifically mentions the council tax (administration and enforcement) regs 1992 .

Within council tax legislation there are no powers to enforce it other than via a liability order or by way of any other recovery method than that listed in the council tax (administration and enforcement) regs 1992. (Compare non-domestic rates collection, off which legislation council tax was based, where under reg 20 of the collection and enforcement regs 1988 recovery can be via a court of 'competent jurisdiction' - this was not rolled over in to council tax ) . This means that an application by way of a form N322 shouldn't apply for council tax as there is a specific method mandated in legislation for it's use to recover council tax.

An order using a form N322, as per CPR 70, for a charging order under CPR 73.2 would have to be by way of s1 of the charging order act 1979 and is a valid route for situations where a N322 application can be used. A form N322 is used only where legislation specifically states that the route can be used - for example compare the Social Security Act 1992 s75, which specifies specifically that recovery can be made 'as though under a court order', i.e. the situation covered under CPR 70 and issued via form N322.

There is nothing in council tax legislation, with it's statutory system of enforcement, which allows an alternative method of obtaining a court order therefore there is no power to pursue council tax arrears using CPR 70 for an order on form N322 and thus they shouldn't be making an application for a charging order on the back of the N322. I would say it's an abuse of process to apply this way. Form N322 is a route where legislation allows a court application to be made, where the CCJ route is not appropriate, and there is no specific method, such as the liability order, in that same legislation but that legislation also envisages that recovery of amount may need to go via the court.

The council could go back and apply via the liability order alone for the charging order under CPR73.2 but that means the process to date they have undertaken would be wrong and thus they'd have to apply again from the beginning for the charging order and do it correctly.

[lgfa92]

The registry trust operates under the Register of Judgments, Orders and Fines Regulations 2005. Reg 8 provides that every county court judgment should be entered in to the register - note it doesn't include the magistrates court, which is why liability orders don't show. A CCJ and a form N322 order would meet the requirement however and thus should, legally be registered but... If it hasn't popped up after 5 months I doubt it will, it's not the first case I've heard of orders that should in theory be registered not getting done so.

[moatmeister]

Please accept a virtual pint. Cheers!

Yes its all definately council tax. Need to do a remortgage to raise finance to finish renovation. IF I have sidestepped a ccj, I am prepared to consider my next move now on a practical level. Unfortunately havn't got the funds to throw into a big leagle fight on a technicality over something I'm going to have to pay anyway. And again, renovation delays have been caused by circumstances beyond my control.

However we are talking about council tax arrears of around £4500 plus charging order cost of approx £500. Whilst I fully accept I owe the basic arrears of around £3k, the only other fly in the ointment is that it includes a 50% empty property surcharge ie about £1500, which in my eyes would be much better spent on repairing the house than lining the council's pocket, to the benefit of everybody. My understanding of this is that it is not a legal requirement for councils to charge this, but they are able to if they want, ie it is optional for them.

Is that correct and do you know of any cases where that has been successfully challenged?