RLP Civil Recovery & Abuse. Police?

[Ames]

Last week on Thursday me and a friend went to Primark. She asked me to get a sticker of another shoe which was 14 pound so I got it off the shoe and passed it to her. She took the sticker of the shoes that where 20 pound and stuck the sticker ontop of the shoe and paid for them.
When we was on the way out a women in no uniform and no badge came up to my friend grabbed her and dragged her a side. She had a terrible attitude and told her to put her phone away and told her to come with her. The security guard who was in uniform asked me if I wanted to come with her so I followed. We was told to wait in a room in primark for around a hour while the women who dragged my friend by the arm was calling us fat and names to someone outside the room. My friend asked her what was happening as we had been waiting in the room for a long time and she told us we where being prosecuted and the police where on their way. 10 minuets to the shops clothing time 2 PSCO's came in and started ripping into us calling us scum and saying I am sly because I do acting and told us we are being given a civil recovery and if we don't pay it the PSCO themselves will kick our doors down and take items out of our house at the same value and when my friend said she can't do that only bailiffs can she started getting defensive saying she can do it herself.

I haven't recieved the letter about the civil recovery yet but what do I do when I get it?!
When my friend went out to get a refund on her card for the 16pound for the shoes he flirted with her and then told her we are probably looking at 130pound?! I am 17 with no income!!

[Johnboy007]

Re: RLP Civil Recovery & Abuse. Police?

OK,
So the lesson you both should learn here is, do not take stickers off of cheaper goods in order to get more expensive goods.
It is classed as 'theft', and you could end up with a criminal record.
If you cannot afford to pay any civil recovery charges, then you will need to ask for more time.
As the store did not actually lose any money, you may get off fairly lightly.
It is an expensive lesson to learn, but I really hope you will not repeat this.
You are so young, and you have the rest of your life in front of you.
Learn by this and make something of your life.
Good luck

[des8]

Re: RLP Civil Recovery & Abuse. Police?

Hi & welcome.
Whilst I cannot approve of your actions, don't panic!
It seems to me that the security people acted way out of order.
Did you tell them you are only 17?
How old is your friend?
Abuse by security & psco is completely unacceptable.
We often have people in our situation asking for help and there are many on this site who will be able to advise you better than I can.
Hang around and they'll be along in due course.
Don't despair

[Johnboy007]

Re: RLP Civil Recovery & Abuse. Police?

Hi & welcome.
Whilst I cannot approve of your actions, don't panic!
It seems to me that the security people acted way out of order.
Did you tell them you are only 17?
How old is your friend?
Abuse by security & psco is completely unacceptable.
We often have people in our situation asking for help and there are many on this site who will be able to advise you better than I can.
Hang around and they'll be along in due course.
Don't despair

The problem I can see here Des, is that proving abuse, is going to be near impossible.
It's one side's word against the other.
And be honest, who would you believe.
Abuse by security and PSCOs is unacceptable, just as theft is unacceptable.
So a lesson learned me thinks........:tinysmile_twink_t2:

[des8]

Re: RLP Civil Recovery & Abuse. Police?

store CCTV ?

[stevemLS]

Re: RLP Civil Recovery & Abuse. Police?

I'm afraid I simply do not believe the OP's account of the behaviour of the store staff or the PCSOs.

[des8]

Re: RLP Civil Recovery & Abuse. Police?

I did not say I believed or disbelieved, just that abuse is unacceptable.
It is not unknown for security staff to overstep the mark.
Physically restrained?
Waiting in a room for an hour.... locked in or able to leave?
I don't judge, just comment on situation as it is explained.
As op is only 17.........responsible adult present?
A young girl who admits she did wrong is asking for help........... do you suggest we ignore her request?
If so, and that is to become the attitude of this forum, I'll be off.

[Johnboy007]

Re: RLP Civil Recovery & Abuse. Police?

I did not say I believed or disbelieved, just that abuse is unacceptable.
It is not unknown for security staff to overstep the mark.
Physically restrained?
Waiting in a room for an hour.... locked in or able to leave?
I don't judge, just comment on situation as it is explained.
As op is only 17.........responsible adult present?
A young girl who admits she did wrong is asking for help........... do you suggest we ignore her request?
If so, and that is to become the attitude of this forum, I'll be off.

Hi Des,
I don't think we have denied the OP help, but in the circumstances there is very little we can do, other than to offer a shoulder to cry on.
Proving abuse is going to be really hard.
So there isn't much we can do with this thread.
The young lady has learned a valuable lesson in life, that you can't buck the system.
In post#2 I did give her some advice.
It is an expensive lesson to learn, but I really hope you will not repeat this.
You are so young, and you have the rest of your life in front of you.
Learn by this and make something of your life.

I would say to you, that this was not a case of ignoring the young lady.
She is now 17, and in a few months time she will be 18 and then she will have to stand on her own two feet.
That is the reality of what the pair of them did.
Better a lesson now, than a jail sentence later on.

[bluebottle]

Re: RLP Civil Recovery & Abuse. Police?

I have just read this thread and cannot believe what I have read.

Regardless of whatever the OP and their friend have done, which is Fraud by False Misrepresentation, incidentally, not Theft, Primark have cooked their goose if they think they have a good case for civil recovery. If the physical force used by the security goon is excessive and/or disproportionate, in the circumstances, no court is going to tolerate that sort of behaviour. Also, a court cannot condone or be seen to condone the sort of behaviour displayed by the security goon in the OP's case if it is excessive or disproportionate.

Now to the conduct of the PCSOs. The pair of them should be sacked. They have abused their authority and brought the police force they work for into disrepute. This sort of conduct does considerable harm to police-public relationships and makes the job of warranted officers much harder because it harms the confidence and trust of the public in the police. The matter needs to be reported to the Station Superintendent for the area in which the Primark store is located with a copy of any letter to the Chief Constable.

How long was the OP and their friend detained by Primark in total?

[wales01man]

Re: RLP Civil Recovery & Abuse. Police?

I cannot condone the OPs actions if proved in a Court of law the basis of our law is innocent until PROVEN guilty.

This alleged abuse by security guards and PCSO must me investigated CCTV must be available to the Police to investigate.

For those who condemn the OP and friend this could happen to a member of your family who makes a mistake which in many cases shoplifting offences are.

Security guards are not the Police CPS and Courts rolled into one lets have a Police investigation not a threatogram from RLP.

[des8]

Re: RLP Civil Recovery & Abuse. Police?

So pleased to see you BB & Wales!

[bluebottle]

Re: RLP Civil Recovery & Abuse. Police?

I cannot condone the OPs actions if proved in a Court of law the basis of our law is innocent until PROVEN guilty.

This alleged abuse by security guards and PCSO must me investigated CCTV must be available to the Police to investigate.

For those who condemn the OP and friend this could happen to a member of your family who makes a mistake which in many cases shoplifting offences are.

Security guards are not the Police CPS and Courts rolled into one lets have a Police investigation not a threatogram from RLP.

I tend to agree with what you say, Wales. The vast majority of shoplifting is carried out by organised criminal gangs, often, stealing to order (90%), a lesser percentage (9%) is pilferage by retail employees and the remaining 1% is carried out by opportunists who intend to steal.

I have also noticed the OP is below the age of majority. Regardless of whether the OP's friend is too, the two PCSOs failed to comply with the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 by interviewing a minor without an Appropriate Adult present.

In the circumstances, I am of the opinion Primark would be unwise to attempt to pursue any claim for civil recovery, whether directly or indirectly through a company like RLP. Given what has been done that, potentially, should not have been done and what has not been done that should have been done I am of the view a court would not look on any claim very favourably.

[Johnboy007]

Re: RLP Civil Recovery & Abuse. Police?

I have just read this thread and cannot believe what I have read.

Regardless of whatever the OP and their friend have done, which is Fraud by False Misrepresentation, incidentally, not Theft, Primark have cooked their goose if they think they have a good case for civil recovery. If the physical force used by the security goon is excessive and/or disproportionate, in the circumstances, no court is going to tolerate that sort of behaviour. Also, a court cannot condone or be seen to condone the sort of behaviour displayed by the security goon in the OP's case if it is excessive or disproportionate.

Now to the conduct of the PCSOs. The pair of them should be sacked. They have abused their authority and brought the police force they work for into disrepute. This sort of conduct does considerable harm to police-public relationships and makes the job of warranted officers much harder because it harms the confidence and trust of the public in the police. The matter needs to be reported to the Station Superintendent for the area in which the Primark store is located with a copy of any letter to the Chief Constable.

How long was the OP and their friend detained by Primark in total?

Would the store have CCTV in the room they were taken too?
I very much doubt it.
As I said earlier, it is going to be hard for the girls to prove abuse.
I too do not condone abuse by people in authority, but proving it is another thing.
And thanks BB, for clarifying the offence as Fraud by False Misrepresentation.

[wales01man]

Re: RLP Civil Recovery & Abuse. Police?

If there is no CCTV it should be left for the Courts to decide who is guilty of any offence not RLP

[Johnboy007]

Re: RLP Civil Recovery & Abuse. Police?

If there is no CCTV it should be left for the Courts to decide who is guilty of any offence not RLP

I don't think this will ever get to court Wales,
Not unless the girl's parents want to press charges..