Shoplifting children!

[bluebottle]

Re: Shoplifting children!

Thank you so much to everyone that has responded! I read the Oxford case and it was incredibly helpful!
After talking some more with the girls, I found that the security guard didn't touch the children but he did remove their bags with contents in from the room. He ridiculed the girls and laughed in their faces!
I don't really want to persue a case against Boots and their security team. All I want is this unreasonable fine to be dropped. I am prepared to go down that route if need be though as I believe I have enough evidence to prove this.
My thinking now is to write to Boots as this is who I have the issue with. I plan to tell them I am disputing the fine as it is unreasonable as firstly I believe that this will enrich them rather than compensate them due to there being no losses. Secondly, isn't the punishment supposed to fit the crime. The girls were stealing through greed, is that not what Boots are trying to do using RPL? And thirdly the tactics and methods of the store detective are somewhat questionable.
If anyone thinks I should add anything else or deal with it some other way, I would be really grateful for your input.
Thanks again guys!
Ps-Inca, don't worry I haven't been to hard on them, just suspended their allowance and spent all day trying to get their fine quashed!

Pashmina,

The bit I have highlighted in bold red text is a little puzzling. Could you confirm the following -

1. Did he take the bags out of the room and out of sight of your two daughters?
2. Did your daughters witness him put his hands inside the bags and search through what was in the bags?

I have good reason for asking these two questions.

[pashmina]

Re: Shoplifting children!

Yes, he took the bags out of the room and out of their sight. And yes he put his hands in the bags where they couldn't see. He was accompanied by a female Boots staff member when he did this.

[wales01man]

Re: Shoplifting children!

By not making a formal complaint to Boots or even the Police the likes of the store staff and security goons here will carry on acting in this way the next time a different result.

In this country we have the Police to deal with offences of theft and shoplifting we never should allow some Security guard and a private company for Trial conviction and punishment which is what this charge from RLP is

[MissFM]

Re: Shoplifting children!

Thank you so much to everyone that has responded! I read the Oxford case and it was incredibly helpful!
After talking some more with the girls, I found that the security guard didn't touch the children but he did remove their bags with contents in from the room. He ridiculed the girls and laughed in their faces! He also threatened to take the youngests phone off her when she triedcto text me after he refused to allow her to phone me. He also questioned them and took their names and addresses before the police arrived. As this has never happened before, the girls weren't aware of their rights and as because they were scared of tge security guard they spilled!
I don't really want to persue a case against Boots and their security team. All I want is this unreasonable fine to be dropped. I am prepared to go down that route if need be though as I believe I have enough evidence to prove this.
My thinking now is to write to Boots as this is who I have the issue with. I plan to tell them I am disputing the fine as it is unreasonable as firstly I believe that this will enrich them rather than compensate them due to there being no losses. Secondly, isn't the punishment supposed to fit the crime. The girls were stealing through greed, is that not what Boots are trying to do using RPL? And thirdly the tactics and methods of the store detective are somewhat questionable.
If anyone thinks I should add anything else or deal with it some other way, I would be really grateful for your input.
Thanks again guys!
Ps-Inca, don't worry I haven't been too hard on them, just suspended their allowance and spent all day trying to get their fine quashed!

The point is, Pashmina, that they have no legal right to "fine" your daughters, even had they been proven in a court of law to have stolen the goods, that would be up to the court to decide, not Boots or RLP. They have no rights at all.

I think you can safely quote CC's favourite "Arkell v Pressdram" at them.

[pashmina]

Re: Shoplifting children!

Thanks Miss FM and Wales!
So, do I write to them both. RLP to tell them I'm not paying and Boots to log a formal complaint? I'm so sorry for all the questions but I really haven't got a clue!
Miss FM, I've just checked the case you reffered to. love it!!

[wales01man]

Re: Shoplifting children!

Others may agree complain to BOOTS RLP are acting and under control of them

[CleverClogs]

Re: Shoplifting children!

Yes, he took the bags out of the room and out of their sight. And yes he put his hands in the bags where they couldn't see. He was accompanied by a female Boots staff member when he did this.

Then the evidence was contaminated and no prosecution could safely have been considered.

Who - if anyone - was present when the girls emptied the non-corporeal contents of their underwear?

[bluebottle]

Re: Shoplifting children!

No it wouldn't but mishandling of children and vulnerable adults would be regarded as more serious, and the goon could end up being compared with Ken Barlow or Len Fairclough, or rather the actors who played them.

And if he is SIA-licensed, he could lose his licence at the very least. And I believe once revoked, like bailiffs, they don't get them back.

[bluebottle]

Re: Shoplifting children!

Yes, he took the bags out of the room and out of their sight. And yes he put his hands in the bags where they couldn't see. He was accompanied by a female Boots staff member when he did this.

Thank you, Pashmina. Both he and the female member of staff have committed civil torts and there are now serious questions as to the veracity of the statements they made to the police and RLP. How do we or they know these two didn't put something in the bags and then claimed to the police your daughters had stolen the items? The female member of staff is equally at fault as he is as she should have stopped him from doing so. Many commercial entities are under the misguided belief that if you have a witness, you are protected. The reality is you are not. If what is done is unlawful or illegal, the "witness" is an accessory if they do nothing to stop the unlawful or illegal act.

I feel your best course of action is to speak to a legal professional. This may need to be reported to the police and coming from a legal professional it is likely to have more impact. Whether there is a case to answer against Boots and RLP under Civil Law is something you will need to discuss with the legal professional. The name of the security goon, his SIA licence number and its expiry date (if he is SIA-licensed) will be required in order that a complaint can be made to the SIA. Again, let the legal professional handle this.

RLP are the agent of Boots who are vicariously-liable for what RLP do, including farting loudly whilst speaking to you on the phone.

[pashmina]

Re: Shoplifting children!

Thanks Bluebottle! I guess I'm calling a solicitor in the morning then!
I really appreciate all your replies today BB, they have been most helpful (and amusing) as have CC's too. You guys are really kind to help people you don't even know! Thanks again!

[bluebottle]

Re: Shoplifting children!

Thanks Bluebottle! I guess I'm calling a solicitor in the morning then!
I really appreciate all your replies today BB, they have been most helpful (and amusing) as have CC's too. You guys are really kind to help people you don't even know! Thanks again!

You're welcome, Pashmina. I was a policeman for a while until a knee injury ended my career. I am unable to work due to a neurological condition, which is not connected with the knee injury, so I come onto the LB forums and help people like yourself by imparting knowledge and experience. It keeps me out of mischief.

[bizzybob]

Re: Shoplifting children!

Pashima, there is one thing you must be clear about when you talk to that solicitor, a private company CANNOT fine anyone, only a court of law can do that the status of the RLP demand is the same as that of a private parking contractors fine, they are both speculative invoices nothing more, they have blown any case they may think they have out of the water, in any event the Oxford Case would apply and they have suffered no loss. In fact the actions of the goons is so serious that they should have a complaint made about them, not least for not calling an appropriate adult, and for removing the bags before rifling through them.

[Inca]

Re: Shoplifting children!

No, she's only got married.

Two people who were living together had a ceremony, held a party, went on a holiday and then resumed living together.

Grumpy old git Cloggy.........Yes,Bizzy,My OH and I got married on 12/1,,,a beautiful ceremony in stunning surroundings,followed by a sumptious meal and a party....was wonderful xxx