Girlfriend caught shoplifting

[fearandloathing]

Hi, first post on the forum.

On the 17th, my girlfriend entered Tesco and tried to steal some minor make up items (worth less than £3) and as a result of this was barred from all Tescos for lifetime (little harsh I feel, but I understand there's not much that can be done). However when she told me what happened, from my admittedly amateur level of legal knowledge the security and Tesco acted very over-zealously in their actions.

1) She hadn't actually left the premises, the Tesco here has an atrium type structure before the main store. She was apprehended before she left this area
2) The security guard didn't announce himself or ask her to come with him, he just grabbed her and forcibly marched her into a backroom.
3) Once there, the manager blocked the door as she was asked to empty her bag and give her details over. Being scared and naive (she's only 19) she agreed to this and they noted her details into a book
4) The police weren't called, in the managers words (second hand to me) 'they wouldn't be too impressed if we called them now'
5) Informed she was barred for life she just silently agreed, too scared/stunned to argue and agreed to pay, paying for the items before leaving and coming back home shaking.

I'm not apologising for her actions or even trying to justify them, but to my eyes at least, it seems Tesco have done a number of things wrong/possibly illegal in this instance. Am I right?

[enquirer]

Re: Girlfriend caught shoplifting

Although technically, a suspicion of theft is warranted if the last place to pay has been passed, it is normally customary to wait until the suspect has left the premises. It might be said that as she had not left the premises, the allegation of theft is dubious.

In those circumstances, forcibly grabbing someone without warning and without reasonable cause might be held to amount to assault. A verbal statement or a light touch on the arm would have been sufficient.

Was she informed at any time that she had been arrested? (detaining someone in this fashion is a de facto arrest, but the fact that they appear to have said nothing is highly irregular). Was she not cautioned before being questioned?

Given their conduct, the admission might be said to have been obtained under duress.

All told, not impressive.

As Tesco have taken her details, be prepared for a deluge of letters from RLP (Retail Loss Prevention).

[fearandloathing]

Re: Girlfriend caught shoplifting

Bear in mind she was pretty shaken by the whole thing and was scared at the time, what's been relayed to me is.

At no time did the security guard announce he was a security guard or ask her to come in - he just grabbed her and marched her into a backroom, stepping on the back of her shoe at one point, the only words he said were;
what do you think you're doing/what're you doing, where you going - then when they walked past the manager he said (in reply to the manager asking what was happening) Nicking make up

She was never informed she was under arrest, there was no caution, the police weren't involved at any step - she didn't know she didn't have to empty her bag, but did so when requested, not just the stolen things but everything including personal letters (which they took her name and address off).

Would this be something I should take further? she's still pretty shaken and scared by what happened.

[wales01man]

Re: Girlfriend caught shoplifting

Is it worth the OP going to the police?

[CleverClogs]

Re: Girlfriend caught shoplifting

On the 17th, my girlfriend entered Tesco and tried to steal some minor make up items (worth less than £3)

No, she did not.

From the account given, it is surely obvious that she was trying to see the colour of the war-paint under daylight rather than under the ghastly glow of the cheap fluorescent lights in the store.

As she was evaluating the goods under daylight, she was grabbed, hassled and hustled by the security troll, to whom Tesco has somehow managed to teach a few words of English..

and as a result of this was barred from all Tescos for lifetime

Whilst that is unfortunately impossible to enforce, I am not convinced that she entirely merits such a reward.

Still, being "banned" for a week or two should get her into the habit of shopping or shop-lifting somewhere better.

(little harsh I feel, but I understand there's not much that can be done).

Nor is there anything that needs to be done to lift that supposed "ban". Will Tesco have programmed a face recognition program with her image so that, if she dares to enter one of their horrid stores ever again, the doors will lock and a loud klaxon will sound?

1) She hadn't actually left the premises, the Tesco here has an atrium type structure before the main store. She was apprehended before she left this area

Exactly. She merely wanted to check that the face slap looked a little less garish under daylight.

2) The security guard didn't announce himself or ask her to come with him, he just grabbed her and forcibly marched her into a backroom.

One might wonder if it was a lawful arrest. It was certainly assault and battery.

3) Once there, the manager blocked the door as she was asked to empty her bag and give her details over. Being scared and naive (she's only 19) she agreed to this and they noted her details into a book

False imprisonment or unlawful detention.

4) The police weren't called, in the managers words (second hand to me) 'they wouldn't be too impressed if we called them now'

Yet summoning the police is the only reason why a citizen's arrest can lawfully be made!

Perhaps the reason the police would not have been impressed was that the evidence had effectively been contaminated - the suspect could say the items had been planted on her to excuse a wrongful arrest - or that the goods were worth no more than 180 groats?

5) Informed she was barred for life she just silently agreed, too scared/stunned to argue and agreed to pay, paying for the items before leaving and coming back home shaking.

As she paid for the items, no crime has been committed by her. The Tesco trolls may have, however, committed offences against her.

[bluebottle]

Re: Girlfriend caught shoplifting

Hi, first post on the forum.

On the 17th, my girlfriend entered Tesco and tried to steal some minor make up items (worth less than £3) and as a result of this was barred from all Tescos for lifetime (little harsh I feel, but I understand there's not much that can be done). However when she told me what happened, from my admittedly amateur level of legal knowledge the security and Tesco acted very over-zealously in their actions. Being banned from Tesco isn't such a bad thing. Other retailers treat their customers a lot better.

1) She hadn't actually left the premises, the Tesco here has an atrium type structure before the main store. She was apprehended before she left this area Tesco are on very dangerous ground.
2) The security guard didn't announce himself or ask her to come with him, he just grabbed her and forcibly marched her into a backroom. Assault and battery.
3) Once there, the manager blocked the door as she was asked to empty her bag and give her details over. Being scared and naive (she's only 19) she agreed to this and they noted her details into a book. Their actions are illega/unlawfull in respect of the detention and searching her bag/making her empty her bag.
4) The police weren't called, in the managers words (second hand to me) 'they wouldn't be too impressed if we called them now' Too bloody right they wouldn't!
5) Informed she was barred for life she just silently agreed, too scared/stunned to argue and agreed to pay, paying for the items before leaving and coming back home shaking.

I'm not apologising for her actions or even trying to justify them, but to my eyes at least, it seems Tesco have done a number of things wrong/possibly illegal in this instance. Am I right?

Responses in red text.

[bluebottle]

Re: Girlfriend caught shoplifting

No, she did not.

From the account given, it is surely obvious that she was trying to see the colour of the war-paint under daylight rather than under the ghastly glow of the cheap fluorescent lights in the store.

As she was evaluating the goods under daylight, she was grabbed, hassled and hustled by the security troll, to whom Tesco has somehow managed to teach a few words of English and walk in an upright position without dragging their knuckles along the ground.

Whilst that is unfortunately impossible to enforce, I am not convinced that she entirely merits such a reward.

Still, being "banned" for a week or two should get her into the habit of shopping or shop-lifting somewhere better. Try Morrisons or Sainsburys who, in my experience, tend to treat their customers better and the quality of their merchandise is superior.

Nor is there anything that needs to be done to lift that supposed "ban". Will Tesco have programmed a face recognition program with her image so that, if she dares to enter one of their horrid stores ever again, the doors will lock and a loud klaxon will sound?

Exactly. She merely wanted to check that the face slap looked a little less garish under daylight.

One might wonder if it was a lawful arrest. It was certainly assault and battery. The word "steal"in this case needs explaining a bit more. Did the GF conceal the war-paint on her person, or within her clothing or her handbag?

False imprisonment or unlawful detention. Probably why the manager said what he did.


Yet summoning the police is the only reason why a citizen's arrest can lawfully be made! Section 24A, Police & Criminal Evidence Act 1984 refers.

Perhaps the reason the police would not have been impressed was that the evidence had effectively been contaminated - the suspect could say the items had been planted on her to excuse a wrongful arrest - or that the goods were worth no more than 180 groats? Exactly why retail security should never search an alleged shoplifter's bags. It is unlawful, in any case. Claims of "Common Law Right of Search" is total balderdash as I have yet to find the existence of such a right.

As she paid for the items, no crime has been committed by her. The Tesco trolls may have, however, committed offences against her.

Spot-on, Cloggy. If the OP's girlfriend gets any begging letters from RLP, they should be put firmly in their place.

[fearandloathing]

Re: Girlfriend caught shoplifting

So is this worth me going and kicking up a fuss over? Or going to the police?
Personally I never go in the Tesco's (there's a Sainsbury right across the road like 30 seconds away) so not going there again is no problem, but if they've done the wrong thing here it would make her feel a little better if we can go down and cause some problems for them.

[bluebottle]

Re: Girlfriend caught shoplifting

So is this worth me going and kicking up a fuss over? Or going to the police?
Personally I never go in the Tesco's (there's a Sainsbury right across the road like 30 seconds away) so not going there again is no problem, but if they've done the wrong thing here it would make her feel a little better if we can go down and cause some problems for them.

Wait and see if they try to extract any money through RLP, first. If the actions of the security goon and the manager's comment are anything to go by, both Tesco and RLP would be very unwise indeed to try and demand any money from the OP's girlfriend.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Girlfriend caught shoplifting

if they've done the wrong thing here it would make her feel a little better if we can go down and cause some problems for them.

Such as loading up a trolley full of ice-cream and/or frozen fish, joining the longest queue for the check-out one can find and then, when she reaches the till, she remarks that she's just remembered she'd been "banned", so she just leaves everything there? :rofl:

[bluebottle]

Re: Girlfriend caught shoplifting

Such as loading up a trolley full of ice-cream and/or frozen fish, joining the longest queue for the check-out one can find and then, when she reaches the till, she remarks that she's just remembered she'd been "banned", so she just leaves everything there? :rofl:

As tempting as it is, Cloggy, I would neither recommend or advocate such a course of action as it would amount to Criminal Damage. If the OP's girlfriend does receive any begging letters from RLP, that is when Tesco is likely to attract more hassle than they want or can handle. I would like to see the security goon and manager explain their actions to a court. I suspect a judge would rip them to shreds. I don't think RLP would come out of it well either.

[wales01man]

Re: Girlfriend caught shoplifting

Why is it criminal damage to leave a trolley of food I understood yhat when shopping a contract is not formed until the shop asks you to pay for the goods?

[CleverClogs]

Re: Girlfriend caught shoplifting

As tempting as it is, Cloggy, I would neither recommend or advocate such a course of action as it would amount to Criminal Damage.

Which was why I asked that question.

The same, of course, would also apply to taking full bottles of fresh milk (or chocolate milk drink) and burying them - upside down - in one or more freezers; as the water in the milk freezes, it would expand and burst the bottles open. :grin:

If the OP's girlfriend does receive any begging letters from RLP, that is when Tesco is likely to attract more hassle than they want or can handle. I would like to see the security goon and manager explain their actions to a court. I suspect a judge would rip them to shreds. I don't think RLP would come out of it well either.

But they wouldn't anyway, if their fatuous and fanciful claim was properly defended.

[bluebottle]

Re: Girlfriend caught shoplifting

Why is it criminal damage to leave a trolley of food I understood yhat when shopping a contract is not formed until the shop asks you to pay for the goods?

If you read Cloggy's post, it involves frozen fish and food which is classed as perishable. The fact the OP's girlfriend is banned from the store and would stand at the longest queue possible, until detected and asked to leave, knowing she was banned, would amount to CD as by the time detection is likely, the frozen fish and food would already be defrosting and, therefore, unsaleable, as, once thawed, frozen food cannot and should not be re-frozen. CD can be deliberate or reckless.

[bluebottle]

Re: Girlfriend caught shoplifting

Which was why I asked that question.

The same, of course, would also apply to taking full bottles of fresh milk (or chocolate milk drink) and burying them - upside down - in one or more freezers; as the water in the milk freezes, it would expand and burst the bottles open. :grin:


But they wouldn't anyway, if their fatuous and fanciful claim was properly defended.

To be honest, Cloggy, I don't think it would get as far as a court hearing. RLP is so disingenuous, I would not put it beyond the realms of possibility that they trip up and drop themselves and Tesco in the crap.