RLP help

[Fairy40]

Hello this my first time posting and I feel that I need to speak to someone.
I was in tesco today, looking at their magazines, the ones with the free samples in the front. I was about to buy the magazine but wanted to take a closer look at the sample. I tore the front accidentally and the sample came out into the trolley. At that moment my son who was with me decided that he needed the toilet. As the store policy is strict about taking trolleys in the toilet cubicles and toilet area, I decided I would put back the magazine back and come back later if I wanted it. I then carried on with my shopping as usual after taking my son to the toilets. I paid for my shopping and as I was leaving I was stopped by the security person who said that I had taken a sample from the magazine. They led me back to the office and they started checking all my bags etc, and receipts for the items that I had purchased, all of which was legitimate and paid for. They found the sample in one bag which I hadn't realise must have gone in the bag. It for a sample size of nail polish. Then another person bought the magazine from the rack and presented it to security who then said it cost £4.00. Then they told me that I had been cautioned, by this time I was panicking and apologised for taking the item,even though I wasn't aware that I had,also my 8 eight son was there and I was feeling terribly ashamed.i only had the sample and not the magazine.
. I offered to pay for the magazine but was told it was to late.they also said that I was banned from the shop and would receive a letter from RLP with a fine that I would have to pay. The manager did say though as I was leaving that I could write them a Letter concerning the ban and how long it would be. The problem is that its the only superstore in my locality and I don't drive...also I have a long term health-condition rheumatoid arthritis so I can't walk long distances so relied on this store to do my shopping.as well as this worry there's the worry of the fine. I am currently unemployed and not working am I am extremely worried about whether I would be able to afford the fine. Any help would be greatly appreciated, and would put my mind slightly at rest. Thank you. Edit I also forgot to mention that he also took my clubcard number too

[CleverClogs]

Re: RLP help

Then they told me that I had been cautioned,

You hadn't been.

Security goons are (almost invariably) intellectual pygmies who are afflicted by delusions of adequacy. This one seems to think he is some sort of policeman, which he plainly is not. You appear neither to have been lawfully arrested nor appropriately cautioned; you may have been unlawfully detained.

I offered to pay for the magazine but was told it was to late.

Ridiculous.

Apart from perhaps giving the alleged manager an ego boost and/or an erection, what good would that attitude achieve?

they also said that I was banned from the shop

Equally daft. Will they really refuse money from a shopper and insist on putting everything back on the shelves?

and would receive a letter from RLP with a fine that I would have to pay.

Utter stercus bovi.

RLP are not legally able to impose fines or penalties.

Tesco could try to claim damages, but they'd have to prove their claim and, as no revenue-generating staff were diverted from their normal duties, this should be more than slightly difficult if the claim was properly and effectively defended.

Please see the attached PDF file of the judgement in such a case.

RLP may claim that the staff had become "confused". They hadn't - they just failed to dissemble!

I have a long term health-condition rheumatoid arthritis so I can't walk long distances

Next time, use one of their battery powered scooters.

[Fairy40]

Re: RLP help

Thanks for the quick reply....lols at the mobility scooter comment, I don't think could bring myself to use one of those. But should I write a letter, due to the fact I don't have a lot of local shopping options in my area. I really loathe to shop their again but right now don't have other shops near me, really it was the convenience of shopping there. Do you think they may lift the ban...??also I have reading a lot of threads on RLP and their letters....although I haven't received anything yet , I am expecting to,,,should I just ignore the letters as some posts are suggesting??

[bluebottle]

Re: RLP help

Firstly, retail security have no power under English Law to search the bags, clothing or person of any person they have "detained", whether lawfully or unlawfully. Quite simply, it is both unlawful and illegal for them to do so.

Secondly, retail security have no power, legal or otherwise, to caution anyone. There is no legislation in existence, under English Law, that I know of that allows any person, other than a police officer holding the rank of at least an Inspector, to administer a formal caution.

Thirdly, RLP cannot fine anyone. They are not a legally-convened tribunal and have no judicial authority or powers whatsoever.

So, what can Tesco and RLP do?

By searching your bags, Tesco's security goons have laid not only themselves, but also Tesco, as a company, open to allegations of trespass, unlawful interference with goods (Once you pay for merchandise, title in the merchandise passes to you and it is your property.) and they can also be accused of placing the sample in your bag. This is the reason why retail security should NEVER search an alleged shoplifter's bags, even with a colleague present.

As for RLP, they would be very foolish and, indeed, unwise to even think of writing to you, let alone attempt to enforce one of their speculative invoices. Their client, Tesco, has allowed its employees or contractors for which it has 100% vicarious liability to act unlawfully. And what is there to say that the security goons didn't place the sample in the OP's bag? It is futile for RLP to even attempt to argue their client is innocent of any wrongdoing.

IMHO, Tesco is on very dangerous ground, in the legal sense, in the OP's case. And so, too, will be RLP if they attempt to send or enforce one of their speculative invoices to the OP.

As for the other issues, these would be best advised on by a legal professional.

[Fairy40]

Re: RLP help

Again that's for your advice...I should point out that while I was reading your post and thinking back to what had actually taken place, the security guy had started looking in my shopping bags and either he told me to take my items out or he did, I am not sure as at the time I was slightly dazed and panicked. With my handbag I was told to open it up,all the zips etc and he looked inside. The two items that were taken out of my bag where checked against my receipt. But none of the other items where, none of which made any sense to me. I thought they may have gone though the whole receipt to check that I hadn't stolen anything else. Or maybe the were looking at me on the stores CCTV and seen that I had paid for all my items...who knows...

[bluebottle]

Re: RLP help

Again that's for your advice...I should point out that while I was reading your post and thinking back to what had actually taken place, the security guy had started looking in my shopping bags and either he told me to take my items out or he did, I am not sure as at the time I was slightly dazed and panicked. With my handbag I was told to open it up,all the zips etc and he looked inside. The two items that were taken out of my bag where checked against my receipt. But none of the other items where, none of which made any sense to me. I thought they may have gone though the whole receipt to check that I hadn't stolen anything else. Or maybe the were looking at me on the stores CCTV and seen that I had paid for all my items...who knows...

This just gets better, in a perverse sort of way. Looking at your more recent post, it is clearly evident that Tesco's security goons have overstepped the mark completely. They have no power or right to search through your handbag, let alone your bags of shopping.

With regard to the comment about them going through your shopping "to see if you have stolen anything", they must be able to positively-identify any goods you have attempted to leave the premises without having paid for them BEFORE they apprehend you. They cannot apprehend you on a whim and then search your bags to see if you have stolen anything. Not even the police have the power to do that as they have to have reasonable cause to suspect you have stolen goods on your person or vehicle. Retail security have no such power and neither do you or I.

I would say that Tesco would be very unwise indeed if they attempted to pursue this matter further. As for RLP, if they send you one of their speculative invoices and attempt to extract money from you, I would be inclined to tell them to politely go to hell. If they persist, then you may need to ask a legal professional to send them and Tesco very firm letters. As far as the other issues you have raised are concerned, I would recommend you consult with a legal professional on the points you raise.

[bizzybob]

Re: RLP help

It will be the case that Tesco and their intellectually challenged staff, have broken the law themselves. They would have beeen wise to accept your offer to pay for the magazine. these samples easily detach themselves and usually end up on the floor of the magazine section.

[CleverClogs]

Re: RLP help

These samples easily detach themselves and usually end up on the shoes of people walking through the magazine section.

I've fixed your post for you. :grin:

[MissFM]

Re: RLP help

It will be the case that Tesco and their intellectually challenged staff, have broken the law themselves. They would have beeen wise to accept your offer to pay for the magazine. these samples easily detach themselves and usually end up on Ebay.

Me too (FYPFY)

[charitynjw]

Re: RLP help

Just a thought.

You could SAR the store & ask for a copy of any CCTV footage which they have which shows the alleged theft.

[bluebottle]

Re: RLP help

It will be the case that Tesco and their intellectually challenged staff, have broken the law themselves. They would have beeen wise to accept your offer to pay for the magazine. these samples easily detach themselves and usually end up on the floor of the magazine section.

Tesco's security staff have certainly made a rod for their own and the company's back. What on earth possessed them to behave in the manner they did? More to the point, what on earth possessed Tesco's management to allow Tesco employees to behave in a manner that has the potential to come back and bite them and the company hard on the arse? Has Tesco become so arrogant that it now believes it can do whatever it likes without fear of recourse? It would appear so. However, fate, being what it is, has an awful habit of sinking its teeth into a corporation's rump.

[bluebottle]

Re: RLP help

Just a thought.

You could SAR the store & ask for a copy of any CCTV footage which they have which shows the alleged theft.

Wait and see if Tesco are silly enough to get RLP involved, then use the Civil Procedures Rules to obtain the footage. It doesn't cost you a penny that way as the Claimant is then required to provide you with such evidence as part of their obligations under the Pre-Action Protocol.

[CleverClogs]

Re: RLP help

Wait and see if Tesco are silly enough to get RLP involved, then use the Civil Procedures Rules to obtain the footage. It doesn't cost you a penny that way as the Claimant is then required to provide you with such evidence as part of their obligations under the Pre-Action Protocol.

The recording may have been destroyed by then.

[charitynjw]

Re: RLP help

The recording may have been destroyed by then.

Or if they haven't been, they very quickly will be!

But if you get your request in quickly, either via a SAR or pre-action protocol, the company are then obliged to secure the 'evidence' & if they do not, they're very much on the back foot.
If a SAR is used, the company is then also answerable to the ICO.

[bizzybob]

Re: RLP help

Wonder how many RLP have invoiced in the situation where someone is challenged, receipt cannot be produced, bag searched receipt found, innocent gets letter demanding £112 or so for time spent investigating non crime. Think there was something like this on Watchdog around 2010, will look it up.

In Op's case there is no realistic prospect of RLP getting squat, as Tesco staff behaviour was bordering on if not criminal of itself.