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caught shoplifting help

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  • #16
    Re: caught shoplifting help

    Denying you access to essential medication, especially to a diabetic, is endangerment to health of a member of the public, contrary to Section 3, Health and Safety at Work Act 1974. The local authority health and safety inspectors who deal with health and safety matters as they relate to retail premises may well be interested in hearing about Tesco's attitude towards you. A first aider with an Approved Person's certificate, which only covers basic life-saving techniques, which most retail first aiders hold, would not be expected or be likely to be familiar with the complications or management of diabetes and having qualified in first aid to Advanced Level in the past, I am horrified by the attitude of the first aider in your case. The basic and overriding principle of First Aid is the protection and preservation of life, not endangering it as the Tesco idiot did.

    Notwithstanding, diabetes can affect a person's rationale, state of awareness and consciousness, depending on their blood-glucose level. I speak from experience of having a family member with diabetes of 16 years' standing and having been instructed by a Diabetic Specialist Nurse in taking blood-glucose readings, interpretation of readings, complications, etc.. Also, diabetes can change a patient's blood chemistry, depending on how well it is managed, but it is an unpredictable illness and can change, without warning, necessitating medical intervention.

    As for RLP's fatuous claims, they need to be told that they and Tesco can go whistle unless they wish to explain their questionable actions to a judge.

    And finally, a message to Whacky Jacky. You've been told by the Law Commission and a court of law that your company's claims have no legal basis. So stop behaving like some sort of corporate vigilante.
    Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

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    • #17
      Re: caught shoplifting help

      Thank you, just a word of warning to others that this site is not confidential as RPL have quoted most of my post in their recent letter!!!
      Aunty P

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: caught shoplifting help

        Originally posted by aunty p View Post
        Thank you, just a word of warning to others that this site is not confidential as RPL have quoted most of my post in their recent letter!!!
        If that's the case, they might learn just how thin the ice they and their clients are skating on. Any chance of you scanning and posting up what Whacky Jacky & Co have said. I wouldn't mind betting it's their usual diatribe.
        Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: caught shoplifting help

          Originally posted by aunty p View Post
          Thank you, just a word of warning to others that this site is not confidential as RPL have quoted most of my post in their recent letter!!!
          I believe I indicated as much in post #12.

          Did any of their dismal diatribe deal with how they might hope to justify their preposterous claim when, as in the Oxford case, your barrister subjects it to strict proof?

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: caught shoplifting help

            I have no doubt, Cloggy, if any of RLP's fatuous claims were put to strict proof, they would fail. You cannot claim for loss or expense you have incurred as a result of your own disproportionate actions. Even RLP know or ought to know that.
            Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: caught shoplifting help

              Sorry for the delay replying, i am unable to post the letter on here but will give you the gist of it....
              RPL have been made aware via "legal beagles" i have published my case on the site.
              They say they have investigated my allegations but have obviously inaccurately read them in the first place. They state i was given 2 glasses of water to take my medication, i informed the staff as i say in my post i had no medication with me. by the time i got home i was almost 5 hours overdue taking it. i couldn't contact anyone to bring it as the room which was NOT heated and next to an external open door was at the back of the store and i could not get any reception on my phone. They state my apprehension and detention were perfectly lawful. i was under citizen's arrest pursuant to section 24a police and criminal evidence act 1984 as amended by section 110 serious organised crime and police act 2005(pace) They have included a letter from the Law Commission dated 29 August 2012 and also state that this may be referred to a specialist agent.
              As i state in my first post i posed no threat nor denied my un explainable actions of that day i feel there was no reason to detain me at all. It was highly unlikely police were going to attend anyway taking into consideration the time and day. i hope this makes sense.
              Aunty P

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: caught shoplifting help

                Originally posted by aunty p View Post
                Sorry for the delay replying, i am unable to post the letter on here but will give you the gist of it....
                RPL have been made aware via "legal beagles" i have published my case on the site.
                They say they have investigated my allegations but have obviously inaccurately read them in the first place. They state i was given 2 glasses of water to take my medication, i informed the staff as i say in my post i had no medication with me. by the time i got home i was almost 5 hours overdue taking it. i couldn't contact anyone to bring it as the room which was NOT heated and next to an external open door was at the back of the store and i could not get any reception on my phone. They state my apprehension and detention were perfectly lawful. i was under citizen's arrest pursuant to section 24a police and criminal evidence act 1984 as amended by section 110 serious organised crime and police act 2005(pace) They have included a letter from the Law Commission dated 29 August 2012 and also state that this may be referred to a specialist agent.
                As i state in my first post i posed no threat nor denied my un explainable actions of that day i feel there was no reason to detain me at all. It was highly unlikely police were going to attend anyway taking into consideration the time and day. i hope this makes sense.
                After having had to change my underwear at least three times through p*ssing myself laughing at what RLP have said, I have never, in all my years, read such total crap, yes, crap. RLP have really excelled themselves on this occasion. Section 24A, Police & Criminal Evidence Act 1984 only permits a person who is not a constable to detain a person sufficiently long enough for a constable to arrive. Five hours would be considered unacceptable. RLP are going to have to produce verifiable evidence of case and/or statute law confirming what they claim is correct.

                RLP cannot seem to get their story straight and Tesco aren't exactly reliable where giving a factual account is concerned.

                Could you post up what this letter from the Law Commission actually says? Call me a cynical ex-copper, but I don't trust RLP one little bit, if their past conduct is anything to go by.

                Aunty and Cloggy. I'm going to send you a PM each.
                Last edited by bluebottle; 23rd July 2013, 19:29:PM.
                Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: caught shoplifting help

                  Originally posted by aunty p View Post
                  RLP have been made aware via "legal beagles" i have published my case on the site.
                  Oh, good,

                  Then they know they'll lose if they were daft enough to get Tesco to take it to court.

                  They state my apprehension and detention were perfectly lawful.
                  Wrong!

                  i was under citizen's arrest pursuant to section 24a police and criminal evidence act 1984 as amended by section 110 serious organised crime and police act 2005(pace)
                  Whilst S24A (link) does indeed permit someone other than a constable to arrest anyone reasonably suspected of having committed an indictable offence - an offence that would be tried before a jury rather than before a Magistrates Court or otherwise disposed of - it seems to stretch credulity to include petty theft. Even when an arrest is permitted, nothing in PACE - or any other law - permits someone to be detained for over four hours in such inhumane conditions which could be said to approximate to torture.

                  Moreover, s.28 (link) - which deals with the information to be given upon arrest - would seem to suggest that the arrest itself was not lawful.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: caught shoplifting help

                    The letter. A photocopy dated 29 August 2012 from Law Commission and is addressed to A Ms Lambert
                    Redress for Misleading and Aggressive Practices.
                    thank you for your letter dated 25 July. I apologise for the delay in responding (their spelling mistake not mine!)
                    I appreciate that the issues you raise are of great concern to you. I am aware of the dispute between RPL and the CAB. I am also aware that shoplifting is a significant problem for the British retail industry. Our consultation paper and report however were not specifically concerned with these matters. our instruction from the Department of Business, Innovation and Skills ("BIS") were to review the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations. In particular BIS wished to simplify a complex legal area. Most of our report is therefore concerned with issues other than civil recovery
                    Although we concluded that the Regulations and our proposals do and should cover civil recovery we did not suggest specific rules and exemptions. we agree with you that civil recovery should be governed by the general law.
                    Provide the civil recovery agent does not breach the Regulations or behave in a misleading or aggressive manner then no criminal or civil action can be brought against them. In other words we have no objection to civil recovery as such.
                    i would like to reassure you that we are not part of any campaign against civil recovery. However if we had failed to mention that there were different and strongly held views as to how the law applied to civil recovery than that would have been a significant omission both in our consultation and in our final report
                    David Hertzell
                    Law commissioner
                    Typed out Exactly as wrote.
                    Aunty P

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: caught shoplifting help

                      Originally posted by aunty p View Post
                      The letter. A photocopy dated 29 August 2012 from Law Commission and is addressed to A Ms Lambert
                      Redress for Misleading and Aggressive Practices.
                      thank you for your letter dated 25 July. I apologise for the delay in responding (their spelling mistake not mine!)
                      I appreciate that the issues you raise are of great concern to you. I am aware of the dispute between RPL and the CAB. I am also aware that shoplifting is a significant problem for the British retail industry. Our consultation paper and report however were not specifically concerned with these matters. our instruction from the Department of Business, Innovation and Skills ("BIS") were to review the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations. In particular BIS wished to simplify a complex legal area. Most of our report is therefore concerned with issues other than civil recovery
                      Although we concluded that the Regulations and our proposals do and should cover civil recovery we did not suggest specific rules and exemptions. we agree with you that civil recovery should be governed by the general law.
                      Provide the civil recovery agent does not breach the Regulations or behave in a misleading or aggressive manner then no criminal or civil action can be brought against them. In other words we have no objection to civil recovery as such.
                      i would like to reassure you that we are not part of any campaign against civil recovery. However if we had failed to mention that there were different and strongly held views as to how the law applied to civil recovery than that would have been a significant omission both in our consultation and in our final report
                      David Hertzell
                      Law commissioner
                      Typed out Exactly as wrote.
                      The passages I have highlighted in bold type say a lot.
                      Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: caught shoplifting help

                        Exactly.

                        It is a letter written by a civil servant and hence uses quite a number of words to convey as little meaning as possible. It is therefore sufficiently ambiguous for the recipient to read and interpret much as she might please.

                        Jacky thinks it means that the Law Commission supports her endeavours, whereas I believe a more accurate assessment might be that the position of Law Commission is that, until specifically requested to consider "civil recovery", they would prefer not to get involved.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: caught shoplifting help

                          Hi *aunty,

                          I think that the consensus of opinion is - speculative invoicing, so let them go whistle!

                          *Nb. Sorry about the missing 'p' - RLP has taken it!
                          CAVEAT LECTOR

                          This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                          You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                          Cohen, Herb


                          There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                          gets his brain a-going.
                          Phelps, C. C.


                          "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                          The last words of John Sedgwick

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: caught shoplifting help

                            Originally posted by charitynjw View Post
                            *Nb. Sorry about the missing 'p' - RLP has taken it!
                            Should aunty sue for its return?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: caught shoplifting help

                              I have now received another letter from RPL advising me that the file is ready to be transferred to a recovery agent.. while this has been going on i have contacted the police asking why they did not attend and as of yet have had no response. I will however be following this up asap I still feel that is was outrageous being left for the length of time by Tesco when they knew i had a medical condition ( which could have had serious consequences) and had no medication with me. Advice on next steps please and thank you for you time to respond to my post.
                              Aunty P

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: caught shoplifting help

                                It would appear the feeling is let them pass it to recovery agents. What are these recovery agents going to do exactly? They will write to you, and possibly threaten all sorts of terrible things, none of which are true. Recovery agents can go whistle just as well as Tesco!

                                Comment

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