Civil Recovery - Why not?

[miliitant]

Re: Civil Recovery - Why not?

Yes i think they should be held accountable for what they have done if
A: it is proved without reasonable doubt by a court of criminal law that they had intentionally commited a crime
and B: The fine/sentence is set down by a judge of a CRIMINAL court, not an office in the milton keynes area handing out letters to all and sundry, REGARDLESS of wether the police had agreed charges be applicable.

puff, stop this

we allways think alike

two great minds me thinks

[TopBoy]

Re: Civil Recovery - Why not?

Now, this is a point we agree on, however the police and CPS see it differently, deciding what is "in the public interest" to prosecute, in other words "what can we afford to prosecute?"

Again, i do agree that decisiuons have to be made due to the under-funding problem within our police. This needs to be addressed to do what you are talking about but thats a whole different issue. It would involve people paynig council tax (when it's due, not at £5 per week for 6 yrs as i see people being advised on this site). cutting back on non-essential funding to drug treatment programmes ("treatment" as in "Treat" not in the medical sense of the word) where we provide addicts with medication to replace the filth they put into their bodies, but then giving them needles anyway to continue with their illegal habit (we then tell cancer patients that their treatment is too expensive for the NHS to fund, and make people with asthma/emphasema pay for the drugs to keep them breathing)

Again, wholly off the point i admit but this is the reality if we expect the courts and police to handle every theft.

[Sapphire]

Re: Civil Recovery - Why not?

I don't live that far from Dale Farm, its nothing unusual for the residents on there to nip over to Tesco/Sainsburys with their kids, do their shopping and all be seen stuffing their faces silly all the way round the store, there's empty food wrappers everywhere, I swear by the time most of them have got round they've had the equivalent of a three course meal.
So how come they seem to not get prosecuted ?

Oh and I would add it not just the pikeys that do it, its not unusual to see families walking round stuffing their faces.

[miliitant]

Re: Civil Recovery - Why not?

again you are going off the subject

if you have a problem in the way the police/courts handle people who shoplift, take it up with your MP to make changes at statute level

its no good whining about the system if you are not prepared to do anything about it

BUT WAIT

IT HAS BEEN DECIDED THE LEGALITY IN ALL THIS

AT THE OXFORD COURT HOUSE BY A JUDGE

CASE LAW

END OF STORY

Look now, we have gone full circle

what a waste of an hour of my life debating this

[teaboy2]

Re: Civil Recovery - Why not?

This needs to be addressed to do what you are talking about but thats a whole different issue. It would involve people paynig council tax (when it's due, not at £5 per week for 6 yrs as i see people being advised on this site).

Ohh so now you are suggesting those that hit hard times as a result of the big bankers ****ing up the economy forcing people to lose there jobs and being unable to keep up in repaying their loans to the very same banks that ****ed us all up, and have missed council tax payments in order to keep on top of other bills, should be treated as criminals too. If not then why the **** bring that up in the same paragraph.

Oh and by the way, the courts would order them to pay less and its not uncommon for the court to order them to pay just £1 a month!!!

Jesus you clearly have had a cushy life haven't you. I bet your a keyboard warrior payed extra commission by his those that pay his luxury pocket money aren't you. Well i hope one day you hit hard times as then you will know what its like at the other end of the TOFFee ice cream stick. And for the record, i know what its like at both ends!!

[wales01man]

Re: Civil Recovery - Why not?

Good argument here think we all agree the law as it is is supreme and most object to these recovery firms when the argument moves onto drug addicts those who cant pay their council taxes we can see that one of the posters on here is an im alright jack as stated god forbid he ever comes upon hard times on thing with human beings is some are different to others lets not judge people until we know why they are having finacial/drug or any other problems

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Civil Recovery - Why not?

puff, stop this

we allways think alike

two great minds me thinks

Sorry Militant.. I cant help it if im psychotic.. i mean PSYCHIC! I keep getting those words kefuddled!

And Teaboy hun,
don't let them him get to you.
the question of the council tax being paid at a lower rate, and shoplifting are 2 totally separate issues, and the post seems to be put there just to be imflammatory
if falling behnd on payments is a crime

Guilty M'lord!

[Inca]

Re: Civil Recovery - Why not?

If a RLP or whoever the security muppet is who dared to place a finger on my sainted self I hope he/she would understand that the kick in the crotch they received was solely due to my muscle spasms. Point of thread was made eons ago methinks
#bored

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Civil Recovery - Why not?

and ya dont take my Inca on and live to tell the tale

[TopBoy]

Re: Civil Recovery - Why not?

[QUOTE=teaboy2;299421]Ohh so now you are suggesting those that hit hard times as a result of the big bankers ****ing up the economy forcing people to lose there jobs and being unable to keep up in repaying their loans to the very same banks that ****ed us all up, and have missed council tax payments in order to keep on top of other bills, should be treated as criminals too. If not then why the **** bring that up in the same paragraph.

Oh and by the way, the courts would order them to pay less and its not uncommon for the court to order them to pay just £1 a month!!!

Jesus you clearly have had a cushy life haven't you. I bet your a keyboard warrior payed extra commission by his those that pay his luxury pocket money aren't you. Well i hope one day you hit hard times as then you will know what its like at the other end of the TOFFee ice cream stick. And for the record, i know what its like at both ends!![/QUOTE]

You must have missed the part where i mentioned how i earn a living - i worked for years on minimum wage, working 70+ hrs per week so that i could pay my way without resorting to stealing. I have had bailiffs knocking my door, i have paid my bus fare with a handfull of coppers, i have took jobs where i have to travel 2 hrs on public transport before i even start my shift. In the course of my duties i have been attacked with a knife, and a dirty hypodermic syringe, i have had a shotgun pointed at me - you know absolutely nothing about me, my life and my history. What have you done that makes your opinion so much more profound than anyone elses. You know what it's like at both ends do you??

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Civil Recovery - Why not?

You know what it's like at both ends do you??

Yes, I actually do know what it is like at both ends.

I worked from the age of 17 on British Rail, I have been punched, kicked, spat on.. I have had a knife held an inch off my nose. I have been sworn at, threatened and had horrific things wished upon me. I also did as many hours as I could to keep a roof over my and my parent's
heads.
I have had bill collectors at my door, I have also had to arrange smaller payments as I couldn't make ends meet. I have walked to work because I had to pay the kids dinner monies. I worked on stations where a 6'5 rugby playing man called for backup.. and I did it myself. Alone.
I have never stolen, I wouldn't dream of stealing and I would throttle my kids if I ever heard they had been stealing.

HOWEVER, I also have a sense of right and wrong. It is wrong to steal, end of.
It is also wrong to bully. And my mum and dad taught me that 2 wrongs did not make a right.

What gives a company the right to chase people for huge amounts of money, when they don't have all the facts?

When a policeman attends and sees the alleged thief, they take in to consideration just that.. the word Alleged.
When that policeman determines no crime has been commited, that should be it. there shouldnt be the letter landing on the rug simply because a company, that doesn't know the facts, has decided to chase people for money.

Admins, if I have overstepped the mark, I apologise, but this is how I feel.

[miliitant]

Re: Civil Recovery - Why not?

but as i have stated

the law of the land has decided your opinion is wrong and the whole ethos of RLP is wrong

everybody is entitled to their opinion but move on

you cant put a profit margin on law and order

thats why the judiciary is kept seprate from the police

thats why we had the CPS introduced

[teaboy2]

Re: Civil Recovery - Why not?

Really topboy. well all we have is your word for that. Yet your attitude points to something completely different! I grew up on a rough council estate with a single parent, living on hand me down clothes and struggling to buy food each week. I lived amoung the type of people you say threatened you with knifes and shotguns every day mate. So your experience, if it happened, is nothing, yes the estate is a lot quiter and safer now since the early nineties, but thats beside the point.

Now am a self made millionaire, why am i the millionaire when your not. Ohh its because i had the balls to get out of the minimum wage ranks and do something about it. Or perhaps it because your already well off, and are not actually a security guard at all but just someone using what some security guards had likely come across or what you read in the papers/news to back up your arguement. By the way, if we did follow your argument then a hell of a lot of innocent people would find themselves facing court for a crime that they did not commit (A very danagerous situation given the stress and emotional efffect i can have, especially on vulnerable people who can lose their jobs cos of it and end up unable to pay their bills and council tax as a result - is that what your suggesting?) and the amount of miscarriages of justice would shoot through the roof, the law is how it is now, not just to protect the victim of crime but the innocent too.

Minimum wage came into force on 1st april 1999, you say you have worked minimum wage for years i say you did no more than 2 years on it as security guards are paid more than minimum wage. Plus even if you were paid minimum wage for 70 hours a week, the income from earnt for those hours means you shouldn't have any problems financially if they were the amount of hours you regularly worked, even in 1999 with an hourly rate of £3.60 per hour which is a total of £252 before deductions, which back then was a handsome wage. today it would be £6.19 per hour which a wage of £433.30 before deductions.

MY opinion is more profound then yours simply because it is based on the law of the land. Yes a person guilty should face court and be found guilty but at the same time should be treated innocent till proven guilty. RLP have no right in law to charge either guilty or innocent people anything. If they did, then we would end up seeing speculative invoices left right and centre and a whole load of innocent people recieving them just as we did when ACS:Law sent out speculative invoices, but ohh look how hard ACS:LAW fell. The same will happened to Cireco whom the ICO is interesting in, after all its an offence to process a person data inaccurately and without that person permission, and i suspect RLP will fall just as hard as ACS:Law does. It only take 1 person with the balls to sue them!

[Inca]

Re: Civil Recovery - Why not?

:amen: TO THAT,TEABOY

(DID I SEE MILLIONAIRE??? :eyebrows

[teaboy2]

Re: Civil Recovery - Why not?

You did indeed Inca, but i tend not to brag about it and only stated it to make my point clear, basically he can wollow in his own self pity and take it out on shop lifters what hes been through all he wants, but end of the day am living proof that if you want to change things, then given the right idea and right atitude and ability to put your all into working long hours, 7 days a week (not just a poultry 70 hrs, am talking close to or over 100 hrs over 7 days). Then you can and will succed, even if at first it looks hopeless and your not making anything, eventually the work starts to pay off and the money starts to come in. Then you get the investment needed to grow and expand as banks etc then start to see your or your companies potential. So if i can do it, then only thing stopping him and others is their unwillingness to think outside the box or to put the work in. In other words if he or anyone else is happy to work for someone else for a wage as an employee, then thats all they will ever be, an employee working *****y hours for *****y wages.

I saw the potential earning when i was selling toners, making £2,000+ a week in gross profit for my employer, and though to myself, jesus i could do this from home and make a killing. So i did! yet i see my former employer regurlarly and so far am the only one he knows off other than himself to actually have the balls to do it for themselves the rest are just quite happy sat their earning just above minimum wage and getting a commission of 12% of the month GP they make after the first £1,000 GP. Jesus i can now earn between £5,000 (bad week) to £10,000 (good week) a week just selling on the phone myself, some times i can even make £500 GP in just 1 2 minute call. But better than that, i now offer others the chance to earn more than a wage by instead offering them contracts as self employed trade partners where they earn a commission starting from 25% GP per sale they make upto 50% GP. The benfit of which is i still make a profit, they make a hell of a lot more then they would in any job that they would ever get employed in unless they were a top civil servant, high management or banker, and they don't have to worry about the in and outs of running a business as all they have to keep track of is the copy of invoices and monthly spread sheets showing the incomings and outgoings basically.

So yeah when someone says they know what its like to have been at both ends of the spectrum when really they are just an everyday employee where the only difference between them and those on the dole struggling to pay their bills is the fact they are lucky, in this current economic situation, to have a job, only to blame their situation and life experiences on others less fortune to them and think those people should be castrated for it. When if they got of there arse and did something about improving their life and career situation so they would not have exerienced desperate people taking desperate measures - Yeah it ****es me off! Hell event he guy holding the shotgun did do it because it was personal, but because they are either greedy harden criminals or desperate for the cash.