Caught changing price tags

[craig-k]

Good evening all,

I am very embarrassed about this situation and feel rather ashamed but i will not denied what i did or lie to make the situation sound better.

I was in Debenhams when i changed a price tag on an item for a £4 reduction as the item had a stain/mark. (Looking back i know this was stupid and i should of just asked for a reduction)

I paid for the item and then proceeded out of the store. I was approached by 2xPCSO and 1 Security Guard that worked for the store. They escorted me to the security room and told me i had been seen to change the tag.
I admitted to it and explained why i did it. Shortly after 2 regular police officers arrived. The officers were taking to the security guard and what seemed to be the manager....
To cut a long story short the officers said they would not give me an official caution as they felt it was in-appropriate for £4 and it wasn't theft it was fraud, and it would have to be dealt with in court.

Today i have received a letter from a solicitor who is trying to recover the cost for Debenhams.

Cost of Good stolen or damaged - £4.00
Costs relating to the incident - £125.50
Total - £129.50

There is no time schedule on the letter as to when i need to reply or pay by.
The main question is can i request a break down of the costs they have provided and if they are for employees ask for payslips to prove there amounts are correct.

Or any other guidance would be great. I don't particularly want to pay this ridicule amount but punishment is punishment !

Thanks in advance

[bluebottle]

Re: Caught changing price tags

Hi Craig and welcome to Legal Beagles.

Okay, we all make silly mistakes so don't beat yourself up about it. A few things I need to konw in order to advise on the involvement of this firm of solicitors -

1. How much did you pay for the item?
2. Have Debenhams taken possession of the item?
3. Do they intend to keep the item?
4. What is the name of these solicitors who are involved?

If the matter is going to court, this firm of solicitors are way too quick off the mark. In any case, it appears to me that Debenhams want two bites of the cherry. The law doesn't work like that. I worked in law enforcement, as a police officer, now retired, retail before that.

[craig-k]

Re: Caught changing price tags

Hi,
Thanks for your reply,

1) I paid £3 for the item was meant to be £7 - It was a tie for work .. D'ohh
2) I offered to pay the remainder they said this was not possible - I left with possession of the item
3) n/a
4) The solicitors are called "drydensfairfax" - They seem to be well known on these sorts of forums.

Thanks

[bluebottle]

Re: Caught changing price tags

None of this makes sense. Debenhams have relinquished right and title to the item by allowing you to take it with you. Yes, you are right, Drydens Fairfax are well-known on consumer forums.

Could you scan the letter and post it on this thread, redacting anything you can be identified by. It should be clearer as to whether they have a case or are, simply, trying in on.

[craig-k]

Re: Caught changing price tags

I have attached the front and reverse of the letter they have sent.

Im glad im not the only 1 baffled by this.

Thanks

[CleverClogs]

Re: Caught changing price tags

I admitted to it and explained why i did it. Shortly after 2 regular police officers arrived. The officers were taking to the security guard and what seemed to be the manager....
To cut a long story short the officers said they would not give me an official caution as they felt it was in-appropriate for £4 and it wasn't theft it was fraud, and it would have to be dealt with in court.

Firstly, this is not punishment, as nobody may exact a fine via the civil courts.

Secondly, the 'costs' demanded are grossly excessive and greatly exceed any possible staff costs. Moreover, as neither the putative 'manager' nor the security goon were diverted from any revenue generating activity, it is (at best) debatable whether any damages are due at all.

You offered to pay the difference in price but that offer was declined, therefore it would seem that the store was content for you to leave with a substandard good having paid a substandard price.

[Guest]

Re: Caught changing price tags

Good evening all,

I am very embarrassed about this situation and feel rather ashamed but i will not denied what i did or lie to make the situation sound better.

I was in Debenhams when i changed a price tag on an item for a £4 reduction as the item had a stain/mark. (Looking back i know this was stupid and i should of just asked for a reduction)

I paid for the item and then proceeded out of the store. I was approached by 2xPCSO and 1 Security Guard that worked for the store. They escorted me to the security room and told me i had been seen to change the tag.
I admitted to it and explained why i did it. Shortly after 2 regular police officers arrived. The officers were taking to the security guard and what seemed to be the manager....
To cut a long story short the officers said they would not give me an official caution as they felt it was in-appropriate for £4 and it wasn't theft it was fraud, and it would have to be dealt with in court.

Today i have received a letter from a solicitor who is trying to recover the cost for Debenhams.

Cost of Good stolen or damaged - £4.00
Costs relating to the incident - £125.50
Total - £129.50

There is no time schedule on the letter as to when i need to reply or pay by.
The main question is can i request a break down of the costs they have provided and if they are for employees ask for payslips to prove there amounts are correct.

Or any other guidance would be great. I don't particularly want to pay this ridicule amount but punishment is punishment !

Thanks in advance

Hi

Firstly, it is not the job of Debenhams or their solicitors to hand out punishment, that is the job of the police and the criminal courts. They have decided it is not warranted in such a trivial matter.

So what we are talking about is the recovery of actual costs. To be honest i am unsure what offense actually took place here in a civil sense, there was no theft as the police affirmed, and what is more the losses due to the action could have been mitigated on site, by them accepting the £4 or the return of the goods so i do not see how they can claim for costs involved in recovery.

I think a simple letter asking them for details of the offence committed and a breakdown of all costs incurred due to the alleged offense.

Remind them them that as has been demonstrated in recent court cases they can only claim for costs which caused significant disruption to their clients normal business.

D

[bluebottle]

Re: Caught changing price tags

Hi

Firstly, it is not the job of Debenhams or their solicitors to hand out punishment, that is the job of the police and the criminal courts. They have decided it is not warranted in such a trivial matter.

So what we are talking about is the recovery of actual costs. To be honest i am unsure what offense actually took place here in a civil sense, there was no theft as the police affirmed, and what is more the losses due to the action could have been mitigated on site, by them accepting the £4 or the return of the goods so i do not see how they can claim for costs involved in recovery.

I think a simple letter asking them for details of the offence committed and a breakdown of all costs incurred due to the alleged offense.

Remind them them that as has been demonstrated in recent court cases they can only claim for costs which caused significant disruption to their clients normal business.

D

I doubt very much the claim Dryden Fairfax are making would succeed in court as by accepting the money paid for the item and then allowing you to take it you, Debenhams have allowed proper right and title to pass to you. Like I have said in Post #2, Debenhams cannot have two bites at the cherry.

The reason the police felt it inappropriate to take action, in the circumstances, appears to be the fact they there was an insignificant amount of money involved - £4.00 - and, probably, the fact that Debenhams would have reduced it in any case. Although, technically, it is fraud, in my considered judgement, the CPS wouldn't be too pleased with the police - or Debenhams - wasting their time with a shop-soiled item Debenham would have, in all probability, reduced in price anyway. That is an argument I could see the CPS putting forward. Also, the retail industry has blotted its copybook with the CPS, clogging the court system with petty cases, which cost the taxpayer around £2,000 per case to prosecute and results in cases involving more serious crimes having to be abandoned because of legal time-limits on the commencement of proceedings and denying justice to those who are the victims of serious crime. The police and the CPS have been there before.

I have to agree with what Davyb says about your case. My own gut-feeling is that Debenhams and Dryden Fairfax are skating on thin ice, in the legal sense, especially in the light of the judgement in the case of A Retailer -v- Ms B and Ms K 2012.

[craig-k]

Re: Caught changing price tags

Thank you for all your comments, i will draft up a letter to drydensfairfax and post it before i send, what specifics should it include? Should i quote anything?

Thanks

[bluebottle]

Re: Caught changing price tags

Thank you for all your comments, i will draft up a letter to drydensfairfax and post it before i send, what specifics should it include? Should i quote anything?

Thanks

Draft it first, post it up and if anything needs changing, we'll tell you.

[Guest]

Re: Caught changing price tags

Yes i wold mention the judgment in BBs post, also seek clarification of the offense that caused the alleged damages.

D

[Guest]

Re: Caught changing price tags

Sorry BB posts crossed
D

[Guest]

Re: Caught changing price tags

It seems the cause for damages here is fraud as opposed to conversion, my understanding was that calculation for civil damages in fraud were based on the advantage of the bargain(ie£4 in this case).

I would appreciate any clarification on this.
D

[bluebottle]

Re: Caught changing price tags

There is an argument I can see being raised that as the item was shop-soiled, the seller would have, in all probability, reduced the price had the OP asked. Also, they allowed him to keep the item, so they have willingly relinquished control over it and allowed right and title to pass to the OP. My gut-feeling is that both Debenhams and Dryden Fairfax would be better dropping this stupid claim before it comes back and bites them on the gluteus maximus.

[craig-k]

Re: Caught changing price tags

I have made a first draft, any suggestions/amendments would be helpful.

To Whom It May Concern:

I have recently received correspondence from you with the above reference.
Firstly I would like you to clarify what offence was committed, and also a more detailed break down of all costs incurred due to the alleged offence.
You are claiming £125.50 for cost relating to the incident, this figure is massively excessive and greatly exceeds any possible staffing costs.

I offered to pay the difference of the item but that offer was declined by store staff, therefore it would seem that the store was happy for me to leave the store with a substandard good having paid a substandard price.
The store has willingly relinquished control over the item and allowed right and title to myself.

Yours faithfully