Caught shoplifting - panic sets in

[MJST]

Re: Caught shoplifting - panic sets in

Blimey clever clogs, I was only trying to clarify that now I know it's a scam, I'm all for you're actions of kicking it into touch. Whilst at the same time trying to show that I've spent my working life learning/enforcing/abiding by the law whilst conducting myself in as professional a manner as possible.
I was courteous enough to answer your question, even knowing that you would likely have a hateful reply if you didn't appreciate what I'd written.

[BBB]

Re: Caught shoplifting - panic sets in

Then I am delighted that they were able to give your ego the boost it plainly needed.

It's a pity that Germany lost the war. You'd have liked their uniforms.

For the avoidance of any doubt: I have never stolen anything in my life and, indeed, have helped to prevent a customer at B&Q from neglecting to pay for several cans of paint that the check-out assistant did not see. However, I do regard this "Retail Loss Prevention" as a scam akin to blackmail and I have no sympathy whatever to anyone involved with it.

A bit of an uncalled for and over the top response to MJST, who comes across as a pragmatic individual.

[leclerc]

Re: Caught shoplifting - panic sets in

A bit of an uncalled for and over the top response to MJST, who comes across as a pragmatic individual.

Who has written what appears to be an opinion that he is judge and jury in the manner in which he deals with each case ie he decides and not the judiciary who deserves to receive civil recovery based on his perception of the individual. I am assuming that is where the reference to Germany comes in. I personally do not see much wrong with CC's post but I am used to the manner in which they post. They have read the post by MJST in a similar vein that I have.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Caught shoplifting - panic sets in

Blimey clever clogs, I was only trying to clarify that now I know it's a scam, I'm all for you're actions of kicking it into touch. Whilst at the same time trying to show that I've spent my working life learning/enforcing/abiding by the law whilst conducting myself in as professional a manner as possible.
I was courteous enough to answer your question, even knowing that you would likely have a hateful reply if you didn't appreciate what I'd written.

If you now know that it's a scam then you surely also know that nothing can justify your having inflicted it upon anybody, even if the person on whom it was inflicted had lawfully and correctly been convicted of theft.

If it helps you to sleep a little easier to pretend otherwise or to believe that you only inflicted it upon those whom you somehow 'knew' to be guilty, then please continue to do that - but do not expect any sympathy from decent and law-abiding people to whom you are merely a slightly better form of vermin.

Had you shewn genuine remorse for your past deeds, I would have responded quite differently.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Caught shoplifting - panic sets in

Who has written what appears to be an opinion that he is judge and jury in the manner in which he deals with each case ie he decides and not the judiciary who deserves to receive civil recovery based on his perception of the individual. I am assuming that is where the reference to Germany comes in.

Yes, indeed it does.

'MJST' does not even have the traditional rationalisation that he 'was only obeying orders' so, to quell the unease from his awakening conscience, he needs to pretend that he had some supernatural ability to determine the guilt of his victims.

[MJST]

Re: Caught shoplifting - panic sets in

There doesn't appear to be anything I can write that will make me anything less than a pariah on this forum.
The VIP Members (with the exception of BBB, thank you) has made it abundantly clear that having once been part of 'Civil Recovery', and not abjectedly apologising for it nor feeling guilty about it, I am not welcome on this website.
Fair enough, it's your website (and to use your turn of phrase) you are the 'Judge and Jury' here.
If you're still reading this thread, MKFella, I really do hope you get or have got it all sorted out to your benefit and not Civil Recovery's.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Caught shoplifting - panic sets in

There doesn't appear to be anything I can write that will make me anything less than a pariah on this forum.
The VIP Members (with the exception of BBB, thank you) has made it abundantly clear that having once been part of 'Civil Recovery', and not abjectedly apologising for it nor feeling guilty about it, I am not welcome on this website.

Wrong.

As far as I am concerned, you are quite welcome to visit and to contribute, but just don't expect people to have much (or any) sympathy for your previous antics. It might be best if you could simply avoid attempting to justify your past deeds or to give what I would consider to be bad advice such as telling people to contact RLP and the like in such a way that the 'retail loss' parasites might believe they've found another willing victim.

[leclerc]

Re: Caught shoplifting - panic sets in

There doesn't appear to be anything I can write that will make me anything less than a pariah on this forum.
The VIP Members (with the exception of BBB, thank you) has made it abundantly clear that having once been part of 'Civil Recovery', and not abjectedly apologising for it nor feeling guilty about it, I am not welcome on this website.
The members of VIP do not OWN the site, they do not DICTATE who can and who cannot come onto this forum. For the avoidance of doubt, Celestine OWNS the site so if she says you are not welcome then you are not welcome. That is not the case. A lot of people on this site have been involved in consumer issues for some time so we tend not to blow smoke up anyone's posterior and that includes other members of VIP. Your post are words on a page, ie they can be interpreted by different individuals in many ways. I read your post which caused the minor kerfuffle a few times to draw a conclusion for myself.
VIP membership can be a paid usership to access hidden parts of the forums but it does not entitle the user to ever dictate the views of any other forum member, be it VIP or Admin or otherwise.

Fair enough, it's your website (and to use your turn of phrase) you are the 'Judge and Jury' here.
If you're still reading this thread, MKFella, I really do hope you get or have got it all sorted out to your benefit and not Civil Recovery's.

MJST, thank you for quoting me but it is my interpretation of the post. If someone is caught shoplifting and the person making the decision as to whether to prosecute or not with the police then they are acting as judge and jury and that is how the post read to me(which may not have been your intention). Helpful users on the site are always good as are healthy discussions but unless you have been banned or asked by Celestine to leave then you remain welcome on this site as does any other person but expect the rocky ride if you have worked within an industry like RLP.

I know, I used to work for a bank and post under natweststaffmember so been there, got told a few things ie eaten the guidebook, kissed the manager, undercover spy and still in the employ of the company after having been sacked. If you go then leave but please do not blame me or others who have been tangoed for you leaving and have the courage to remain and give advice which is always welcome.

[Bill-K]

Re: Caught shoplifting - panic sets in

FWIW, I've followed this thread as a lurker, because I have done summat like Righty once did at the filling station - I bought stuff at Tesco's and went through the self-serve checkout. Packed my stuff and headed for the exit - then turned back in realisation I hadn't paid. I scanned my Clubcard, so I could have been traced, anyway - but sure, there is no way to know for sure exactly how we might be treated if we are confronted by security before realising our mistake. Or subsequently hounded by Tesco's own set of 'Paralegal Beagles' !!!

Me and Mrs-K are FOREVER getting into 'domestics' over those things which affect our lives. We often end up agreeing to differ, but agreeing on the principle that - unless we can be convinced by the others' arguments - we have a right to continue putting our arguments forward. If I cannot convince Mrs-K that what I am saying makes better sense than her, then that is MY failing - and NOT hers. I'm sure any self-respecting 'Legal beagle' will concur with that. It is not allowed in the Lords or the Commons - nor any Court of Law - to throw personal insults like this, is it ?

We do not have the advantage of seeing the expressions on our faces, the glint in our eyes, or hearing the inflections in our voices - and so our words are oft taken 'neat,' instead of with a little water. I salute the passion with which guys here post - and THAT must not be belittled, say I. BUT - we do not seem to have the disciplinary advantage of other such places of discussion, where we are at least obliged to treat each other as "an honourable member."

Our backgrounds are diverse, and our pasts are a part of who we are - and what we bring to this forum. That diversity is important, I believe. Let us trash each others' arguments eloquently and politely. If we wish to trash each other personally, then lets do it outside in the Tabloid Yard.

We can do better than that, though, can't we.....surely ?

We must keep the faith and keep the passion. To disrespect our opponents is dangerous. To disrespect our compadrés is suicide, I believe.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Caught shoplifting - panic sets in

Me and Mrs-K are FOREVER getting into 'domestics' over those things which affect our lives. We often end up agreeing to differ, but agreeing on the principle that - unless we can be convinced by the others' arguments - we have a right to continue putting our arguments forward. If I cannot convince Mrs-K that what I am saying makes better sense than her, then that is MY failing - and NOT hers. I'm sure any self-respecting 'Legal beagle' will concur with that. It is not allowed in the Lords or the Commons - nor any Court of Law - to throw personal insults like this, is it ?

Is it an insult to suggest that someone would prefer the designs of Hugo Boss to the shapeless battledress of the British Army?

Is it an insult to state the fact that someone who confessed to 'acting as judge and jury' cannot rely on the traditional excuse of "I was only obeying orders"?

We do not have the advantage of seeing the expressions on our faces, the glint in our eyes, or hearing the inflections in our voices - and so our words are oft taken 'neat,' instead of with a little water. I salute the passion with which guys here post - and THAT must not be belittled, say I. BUT - we do not seem to have the disciplinary advantage of other such places of discussion, where we are at least obliged to treat each other as "an honourable member."

I do not believe that a self-confessed - and self-justifying - participant in this scam can fairly be described as 'an honourable member', for he has merely demonstrated the dearth of honour among or between thieves.

If MJST cares to comment about something else, I may or may not respond; if I do respond, I will not use our disagreement here as the sole or main grounds to snarl at him again although it must be said that his comments here may give one some idea of how he might think or why he might suppose the Daily Mail is staffed entirely by communists.

[Bill-K]

Re: Caught shoplifting - panic sets in

Is it an insult to suggest that someone would prefer the designs of Hugo Boss to the shapeless battledress of the British Army?
Soz - I didn't see that comparison back there, CC.
I agree, though that I.G. Farben produced a much better lice killer than we ever did. The problem (for us) seemed to be that we were constricted by humane production methods - along with a humane definition of "lice." But what does that have to do with the thread topic ?
Is it an insult to state the fact that someone who confessed to 'acting as judge and jury' cannot rely on the traditional excuse of "I was only obeying orders"?
Feckit - where was that confession - and the traditional excuse ?"

I do not believe that a self-confessed - and self-justifying - participant in this scam can fairly be described as 'an honourable member', for he has merely demonstrated the dearth of honour among or between thieves.
I have no idea of your background, so I take you as I find you, sir. Bloody clever - and bloody humorous.

Those who choose to display more of themselves, and their backgrounds, get my extra Brownie Points. Honesty counts just as much. Much maybe I should upgrade my old Commodore calculator !!! Times DO change, don't they ?

If MJST cares to comment about something else, I may or may not respond; if I do respond, I will not use our disagreement here as the sole or main grounds to snarl at him again although it must be said that his comments here may give one some idea of how he might think or why he might suppose the Daily Mail is staffed entirely by communists.
Blimey - I confess I just didn't get that, but I'm sure the blesséd Keith Waterhouse would have summat to say if he could get to a celestial keyboaard, right now - you Horrid Person, you !!! Seriously - let's be horrid to the guys across the fence - it makes better sence [sic].

....

[CleverClogs]

Re: Caught shoplifting - panic sets in

Is it an insult to state the fact that someone who confessed to 'acting as judge and jury' cannot rely on the traditional excuse of "I was only obeying orders"?

Feckit - where was that confession - and the traditional excuse ?

I do wish you'd quoted properly, as I had to cut-and-paste the above comment.

Never mind, though, as I've had to do that with a previous post by MJST where he explained how he alone determined the guilt of a suspect before deciding whether or not to inflict the suspect to 'civil recovery'. That procedure is 'civil' only insofar as no criminal court being concerned, whilst it certainly cannot be considered to be 'recovery' as the store had sustained little or no loss directly connected with the alleged theft:

Firstly, to put you in the picture, this answer applies to suspects who I proved mens rea and acteus rea in my observations, CCTV footage and subsequent MG11.

If I thought somebody made a genuine mistake – like righty did – we’d laugh about it and there’d be nothing further to discuss.
So with that in mind, here’s my answer: I only handed out Civil Recovery to a suspect who saw no need to feel guilty about their crime, often reinforcing this attitude through verbal and/or physical abuse aimed at myself and colleagues, possibly a bit of store furniture too. And usually blaming everyone other than themselves for their actions.
So do I feel guilty after having dealt with a person like that? Not one bit.

In other words, if the suspect meekly kow-towed to being ordered about by a uniformed security goon, he might let them off; if they protested, he'd decide that they were guilty.

As you can see, no attempt had been made to offer the inadequate rationalisation of "I was only obeying orders", so one should applaud his candour whilst deploring his attitude to the rest of the human race.

[Bill-K]

Re: Caught shoplifting - panic sets in

Apologies for causing the extra work, CC !!!

I take your point. I read MJST's post as someone making the effort to decide whether to give the delinquent kid a clip round the ear or take him down to the local nick and go through all the paperwork of pressing charges. A bit like the 'old-time coppers,' who dispensed their own brand of 'village justice.'

But I see your point that this does then depend upon that person making their own instant judgement of the entire situation, and basing that upon nowt more than 'gut instinct.' Sure - I agree - such judgements are not always correct.

But I still prefer the 'old-time coppers' to the unfeeling and unthinking androids we now seem to have policing us.