M&S Shoplifting - Civil Recovery Programme. Any help greatly appreciated!

[CarrotMan123]

A friend of mine was caught "shoplifting" from M&S.

She had placed some items in her bag and continued to shop. She purchased several other items amounting to more than the total cost of the "shoplifted" items, which were about £30 worth.

After being called into a room and interrogated by several men, who told her about all the CCTV footage they had of her going into the toilet (apparently a common move), talking to other people in the shop and leaving with the goods, they pressed her hard to confess. She also was asked to produce a receipt for the items she lawfully purchased (which she did) and proof of address (something she did not have but luckily she had her passport and following an internet search, proof of address was obtained). The men and manager were very confident they had all they needed to prove she was guilty (i.e. CCTV entering the toilet, I can see how this would look bad) and said they had seen all the tricks, heard all the stories before

This thoroughly scared my friend who is over 60 though she still did not confess as she did not willingly steal the items. The men/manager said there was no need for police involvement so there was never any police presence. She was issued with a letter detailing how she would be banned from M&S stores and would soon be issued with a fine for costs of any lost goods (all goods were returned, offered to be paid for and no damage done to them), time of apprehension etc. coming from Civil Recovery Programme by a company on behalf of M&S.

I have read a lot of conflicting information online regarding this sort of issue and was just looking for any information to pass on to my friend by way of clarification of what to do when the costs letter arrives, how much these things tend to be etc.

Many thanks in advance.

[des8]

Hi and welcome

So the heavies were unable to bludgeon an admission of guilt from your friend
good on her!

What she will be receiving is an invitation to pay a sum of money (£150+ probably).
It is NOT a fine. Only the courts levy fines.
It is an unwarranted invoice for dreamt up costs.
Retailers do suffer losses through theft, and seem to think this entitles them to run their own arbitrary system of pseudo justice.

Tell your friend just to ignore the request for payment.
She has committed no crime; has not been convicted of a crime; has not been ordered by a civil court to pay anything.
They have no authority to force any payment.

The Civil recovery firm (RLP) will write a series of ever increasingly threatening letters in legalistic language.
Court will be threatened, but no follow up will materialise (they lost last time they tried it some years ago)
Eventually they might ask a Debt Collection Agency to chase the non existent debt.
A couple of letters with big red scary writing might arrive.

All these letters and demands can be ignored.
Do not be tempted to write back, as they assume this is a signal for them to redouble their efforts

[CarrotMan123]

Thank you very much des8. Peace of mind is almost as important as anything legal in circumstances like these, so your input is greatly appreciated. My friend is definitely an old war horse so she’ll appreciate you saying that! It’s put her mind at ease, a little at least. She’s still fretting a little because she’s the most by-the-book person you can imagine!

Thanks again for the fast reply, very helpful!

[CarrotMan123]

Hi and welcome

So the heavies were unable to bludgeon an admission of guilt from your friend
good on her!

What she will be receiving is an invitation to pay a sum of money (£150+ probably).
It is NOT a fine. Only the courts levy fines.
It is an unwarranted invoice for dreamt up costs.
Retailers do suffer losses through theft, and seem to think this entitles them to run their own arbitrary system of pseudo justice.

Tell your friend just to ignore the request for payment.
She has committed no crime; has not been convicted of a crime; has not been ordered by a civil court to pay anything.
They have no authority to force any payment.

The Civil recovery firm (RLP) will write a series of ever increasingly threatening letters in legalistic language.
Court will be threatened, but no follow up will materialise (they lost last time they tried it some years ago)
Eventually they might ask a Debt Collection Agency to chase the non existent debt.
A couple of letters with big red scary writing might arrive.

All these letters and demands can be ignored.
Do not be tempted to write back, as they assume this is a signal for them to redouble their efforts

Hi

As your earlier advice stated, a letter from DWF arrived asking for payment of £80. My friend took no action and DWF are now calling her home phone and leaving messages, a couple of days after the letter arrived. This is greatly affecting her quality of life and leaving her worried to the extent she is contemplating just paying the "fine" as a small price to pay for regaining peace of mind.

I would like to know what might happen if she does just pay the "fine" - will this be the end of it? Are there likely to be further consequences, for instance can this be taken as an admission of guilt from an innocent woman just wanting to end an ordeal? Also, is it standard practice for these firms to call the home phone of its targets?

Many thanks in advance

[ostell]

So she writes to them and withdraws consent for them to contact her by telephone. Continuation after the request will be considered harassment. Has she got a phone that is up to date enough to block their number, or does her phone provider provide such a service?

[CarrotMan123]

Hi Ostell

I believe her telephone provider does have the capacity to have specific numbers blocked for a small cost, so that is definitely something to look into.
However I have read much other advice that indicates any correspondence at all with companies such as DWF will be taken as encouragement, so she is wary of going down that route.

[des8]

I agree with ostell and either block their number or instruct them that the only way they may contact her is by snail mail and attempts to contact her by any other means will be considered as harassment and reported to the police.
As they area firm of solicitors they will realise the implications of that

No one is required by law to interact directly with anyone (and that includes solicitors behaving like bottom feeding debt collectors).
So if they fail to follow instructions to communicate solely by letter, they are in breach of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.
Not only is that a criminal offence, but the victim may lodge a civil claim for the anxiety caused (sec 3)

Of course any further letters received can then be ignored!

[CarrotMan123]

Many thanks. One final thing - having been informed of all advice to the contrary, if she still chooses to pay in order to stop the letters... they will cease? (As far as you know, of course)

[des8]

Yes... they are not going to spend more money chatting to her.
However cannot recommend giving money to these people who think it is right to run a their own justice system where they are judge and jury.
They are little more than vigilantes

[MIKE770]

to hell paying the parasites worse than back street cowboys, God sake do not encourage common sense tells you tell them not to

[Crystal Maze]

M&S must be having a blitz! Exactly the same happened to me 10 days ago and like your friend I could not admit anything apart from not having the receipt for one item ( 5 other items fully receipted and being returned.)

The security was mumbling a load of stuff about CCTV etc. but when I challenged him he started talking about not contacting Head Office so all pretty weird. It was a terrifying ordeal and I have been told that if I can 'prove' that I purchased the item all will be forgotten.

Pretty difficult without a receipt and to be honest now that I am getting over the shock I am thinking 'would I ever want to set foot in M&S again?' and the answer is no.

I have provided dates and times of all my shoppping visits with amounts spent so good luck to them trawling through that lot. At the end of the day it is their word against mine.

Thankfully after visiting here I realise that any demands for money can be ignored. Once I have dealt with that issue I will be complaining to Head Office about the treatment that I received at the store.

I'll be surprised if they stay in business much longer if this is the way they are treating people. Hope that your friend is OK and takes her business elsewhere.

[Crystal Maze]

How did your friend get on? Curious as exactly the ame happened to me. I am now dealing with M&S Head Office.

[Meili]

Hi and welcome

So the heavies were unable to bludgeon an admission of guilt from your friend
good on her!

What she will be receiving is an invitation to pay a sum of money (£150+ probably).
It is NOT a fine. Only the courts levy fines.
It is an unwarranted invoice for dreamt up costs.
Retailers do suffer losses through theft, and seem to think this entitles them to run their own arbitrary system of pseudo justice.

Tell your friend just to ignore the request for payment.
She has committed no crime; has not been convicted of a crime; has not been ordered by a civil court to pay anything.
They have no authority to force any payment.

The Civil recovery firm (RLP) will write a series of ever increasingly threatening letters in legalistic language.
Court will be threatened, but no follow up will materialise (they lost last time they tried it some years ago)
Eventually they might ask a Debt Collection Agency to chase the non existent debt.
A couple of letters with big red scary writing might arrive.

All these letters and demands can be ignored.
Do not be tempted to write back, as they assume this is a signal for them to redouble their efforts

According to your description, if you insist on ignoring their claims, they will then give up taking measures and the parties involved will not receive any consequences, right?

[Meili]

Hi and welcome

So the heavies were unable to bludgeon an admission of guilt from your friend
good on her!

What she will be receiving is an invitation to pay a sum of money (£150+ probably).
It is NOT a fine. Only the courts levy fines.
It is an unwarranted invoice for dreamt up costs.
Retailers do suffer losses through theft, and seem to think this entitles them to run their own arbitrary system of pseudo justice.

Tell your friend just to ignore the request for payment.
She has committed no crime; has not been convicted of a crime; has not been ordered by a civil court to pay anything.
They have no authority to force any payment.

The Civil recovery firm (RLP) will write a series of ever increasingly threatening letters in legalistic language.
Court will be threatened, but no follow up will materialise (they lost last time they tried it some years ago)
Eventually they might ask a Debt Collection Agency to chase the non existent debt.
A couple of letters with big red scary writing might arrive.

All these letters and demands can be ignored.
Do not be tempted to write back, as they assume this is a signal for them to redouble their efforts

Another question is, regarding their requirement to prohibit re-entry into M&S anymore, what methods do they use to ensure and monitor whether you are re-entering？

[des8]

Another question is, regarding their requirement to prohibit re-entry into M&S anymore, what methods do they use to ensure and monitor whether you are re-entering？

Haven't a clue, altho' I heard a few years back that in some stores they were trialling facial recognition.
Mostly it will be a question of whether or not the person is recognised by the security personnel.

Please start your own thread if you have any more questions.
Hijacking an old third party thread is counter productive as it causes confusion and often is ignored.
Also considered bad manners