Issue on interpretation of return rights.

[Lynnzer]

www.oakfurnitureland.co.uk
Could you please advise on how the returns policy should be legally interpreted for returning a 2 seater settee and 3 seater settee. Delivery was made one day and advised later that same day for return.
Simple exercise really. I just want some confirmation of my own thoughts on the strict interpretation of the return policy for something within 7 days after delivery.

[Kati]

Re: Issue on interpretation of return rights.

tagging @des8

Quoted from the link provided

Within 7 days after receiving your order

We are confident that you will be delighted with your furniture. In the unlikely event that you should wish to return an item to us, we are pleased to offer a 7 day (or 14 days if purchased online) money back guarantee, commencing the day after delivery.

This means you have the right to cancel your order within 7 days (or 14 days if purchased online) without charge; the only liability being for any return carriage costs.

If any items are incorrect, damaged or faulty you should notify us immediately by clicking here. You will need to provide us with the S/C number printed on the white label (found on the furniture). Please return the item(s) in the same condition as received and in the original packaging. Once the items have been returned they will be inspected. You will receive your refund within 30 days of cancellation.

For hygiene reasons, mattresses are excluded from our 7 day (or 14 days if purchased online) money back guarantee unless they are unopened and in original packaging. All our sofas, armchairs and footstools are made to order therefore are excluded from our 7 day (or 14 days if purchased online) money back guarantee.

After 7 days of receiving your order

After this 7 day period (or 14 days if purchased online), we are unable to accept returns of any items purchased unless faulty.

- - - Updated - - -

It looks to me like they are saying that sofas/chairs are excluded from the returns policy due to being made to order?? (although I could be wrong).

Were the sofas faulty [MENTION=4717]Lynnzer[/MENTION]??

[Lynnzer]

Re: Issue on interpretation of return rights.

If you look right at what the return policy is for items delivered and within 7 days of delivery this is what it says:
Within7 days after receiving your order
We are confident that you will be delighted with your furniture. In the unlikely event that you should wish to return an item to us, we are pleased to offer a 7 day (or 14 days if purchased online) money back guarantee, commencing the day after delivery.
This means you have the right to cancel your order within 7 days (or 14 days if purchased online) without charge; the only liability being for any return carriage costs.
If any items are incorrect, damaged or faulty you should notify us immediately by clicking here.You will need to provide us with the S/C number printed on the white label (found on the furniture). Please return the item(s) in the same condition as received and in the original packaging. Once the items have been returned they will be inspected. You will receive your refund within 30 days of cancellation.
For hygiene reasons, mattresses are excluded from our 7 day (or 14 days if purchased online) money back guarantee unless they are unopened and in original packaging. All our sofas, armchairs and footstools are made to order therefore are excluded from our 7 day (or 14 days if purchased online) money back guarantee.
I see that as no charges other than return carriage costs will apply. Yes?
When delivered the lads who dropped them off said we had the 7 day rights, and also when speaking with the returns dept they also agree a return is fine but subject to costs of 30% of cost of goods plus return carriage.
So given that the no return on settees (sofas) is not validated as per the online policy provisions, then surely the only charge would be for return carriage.

- - - Updated - - -
Anything other isn't showing as applicable to this situation as far as I can determine, even if they are meant to be.

It looks to me like they are saying that sofas/chairs are excluded from the returns policy due to being made to order?? (although I could be wrong). No faults. Just a change of mind.

[des8]

Re: Issue on interpretation of return rights.

Did you make your purchase online or in store?

[Amethyst]

Re: Issue on interpretation of return rights.

Is this 30% figure in any of the terms ?

Ahh Clause 7.3 of http://www.oakfurnitureland.co.uk/pa...onditions.html

Return fees will apply as follows; £25 per Product (0-0.25 cubic meters (CBM) or £50 per Product (0.26CBM+). All wardrobes have a return fee of £100 per Product regardless of cubic metres; all sofas and upholstery have a Return fee of 30% of the value of the Product.

and 2nd para http://www.oakfurnitureland.co.uk/pa...y-details.html

on all sofas and upholstery have a cancellation fee of 30% of the retail value of the product if cancelled at any time later than 2 working days after order confirmation. Visit our Return Charges page to work out what your return charge could be.

and http://www.oakfurnitureland.co.uk/pa...n-charges.html


Don't think I'd order furniture from them anytime soon as those terms seem to apply if you cancel 3 days after you place your order, well before delivery.

[R0b]

Re: Issue on interpretation of return rights.

Is this 30% figure in any of the terms ?

Ahh Clause 7.3 of http://www.oakfurnitureland.co.uk/pa...onditions.html


and 2nd para http://www.oakfurnitureland.co.uk/pa...y-details.html



and http://www.oakfurnitureland.co.uk/pa...n-charges.html


Don't think I'd order furniture from them anytime soon as those terms seem to apply if you cancel 3 days after you place your order, well before delivery.

I have to say those cancellation fees seem extortionately high and could be found to be excessively unfair cancellation charge. I recently had a case in court where the judge held that a cancellation fee of 25% on a £450 valued item was found to be unfair as the charges were excessively high. Given the price of their products your looking at a cancellation fee well above £100 - arguably it is a disproportionately high charge since it might be difficult to see what other losses they have incurred if your already paying for the cost of return, other than perhaps a 'restock fee'.

As Des has said, it would be helpful to know if it was online or in-store as that could change things. Also useful to know if the goods were made to specific order.

[Amethyst]

Re: Issue on interpretation of return rights.

It does seem rather insane. I went through the order process a little, and the items don't seem to be all that customised/personalised - just a choice of 4/5 fabrics which I'm pretty sure they'd just have in stock anyway. ( I was thinking they accounted for the high return fee to cover the customisation etc )

Also going through the order process online you are not pointed to those terms and conditions whatsoever.

[R0b]

Re: Issue on interpretation of return rights.

If the goods were ordered online and custom made to order i.e. more than choosing colours or fabrics etc. then the Consumer Contracts Cancellation Regs wouldn't apply but if they were ordered online then the right to cancel is 14 days from possession. Even if ordered onsite, you could still rely on the 7 day period but the 30% cancellation fee would still be arguably excessive and unfair.

[Lynnzer]

Re: Issue on interpretation of return rights.

The "offending items" are now back in a box awaiting collection tomorrow.
Of particular mention is the BIG WRITING on the box. "Return guarantee is void if packing is not re-usable".
So while there may be some argument that the 7 day return notification on their website says that all settees and sofas are made to order and therefore non refundable is a load of tosh. The items certainly were NOT made to order.

You know how fragile and tearable selotape becomes with age? Well the stuff on the coverings over the furniture was like rice paper for being so old. It's surely a stock item. So that would seem to rule out any argument on them having to make to order thus refusing a return in line with their current conditions.

So, having read the first script about the 7 day return period, even the bit that says not returnable for settees, you then go to the second page which quite clearly states there is no charge for returns save for cost of collection.
That would at the minimum set a consumer to believe he could return, in line with what the delivery driver and the box notification says, without a charge above the collection cost. A confused point like that should be allowed to the advantage of the consumer. Any other things picked up along the way which aren't part of the core terms should also be discounted in favour of the consumer.

The handbook that came with the items also says returns at no charge save for collection fees, then on another page tries to introduce the same argument of 30% fee for soft furnishings. Not in the Core Terms though; just a separate page.

So tomorrow becomes the point at which i will need to set up a series of claims perhaps resulting in a CC claim for the 30% that they more than likely won't refund. I have to call them when the items have been collected for the refund, so they say,m but I expect it won't be quite as easy as all that.

Whatever, I'm no easy rollover and if you knock on my skull you'll no know there's no veneer in here either.

[Lynnzer]

Re: Issue on interpretation of return rights.

Well, things have progressed to a conclusion.
I didn't want to start a dialogue before the items were collected in case they invoked the no return clause so when the van had taken them I called and asked for a refund. I was bluntly told that the 30% deduction would apply but they would refund the 70% immediately, which they did.
I argued that their terms and conditions was nowhere near clear enough to draw attention to a 30% deduction and pointed them to all the conflicting pages on their website, the Owners manual and the Order Form.

No agreement was made for the full refund so I called it quits at that stage but told them I would escalate the case.

I then emailed the Customer Services section as follows:I am escalating a matter to you for consideration of a return of the 30% cancellation fee applied against me on the return of the above order.
I have been directed to yourselves in customer services so if you feel this is not the correct place for the matter to be addressed then please advise who I need to contact for pre legal correspondence.

As you will be aware from your records the above order has now been returned. I am also advised that a refund will be applied less of a 30% cancellation fee. It is this which is the basis of this correspondence.

I have already pointed out that the only charge payable would be those shown on the contract, ie the sales order.
The reverse of the order sheet has the terms ands conditions which are the only ones relevant to the sale as no added terms can be placed on a consumer without agreement being made first.

The rear page terms, and the only ones valid for the contract, are shown on the section : Can I cancel My Order. The script says exactly - "We are pleased to offer a 7 day money back guarantee, which starts from the day after delivery and full details are available in your terms and conditions leaflet and on our website. Should non faulty items be returned due to other items in your order being faulty or damaged then full return return fees will be applicable on all non faulty items, full costs are available in your Owners Manual......"


I first of all draw your attention to the fact that the owners manual is only handed to a customer after signing the order sheet so until time was not available for inspection, and in any case is also referring to other places, ie the website, for information which would not have been inspected prior to the agreement being made. Core terms of any Terms and Conditions should be full available for consideration prior to the agreement if the partial terms and conditions are to be relied upon for later application. In this case My only notice was that a 7 day return guarantee was applicable. No mention of charges was made which can apply in this situation.


You may seek rely on the second part of the Clause ie, "Should non faulty items be returned due to other items in your order being faulty or damaged then full return fees will be applicable on all non faulty items,"
As none of the items was faulted then that particular paragraph is not sufficient to lay a charge of a deduction against me. The only instance that paragraph would apply would be if, for instance, one of the items was faulty but I returned both the faulty item along with the one that was not faulty. There is no condition set that lays a deduction for a totally non faulty return.; only for a return of a faulty item together with a non faulty one.


The referral to a more complete set of terms and conditions also fails to adequately advise, pre-signature, of the costs of such returns.


As it stands, the actual contract, the written and accepted order form is the only contract a consumer can rely upon in good faith.


To take things one step further, just in case you disagree with my analysis so far, the website itself also involves misleading and contradictory statements on returns.
First of all it says in the Refund and Returns page "Within 7 days of receiving your order" - "We are confident that you will be delighted with your furniture. In the unlikely event that you should wish to return an item to us, we are pleased to offer a 7 day (or 14 days if purchased online) money back guarantee, commencing the day after delivery.
This means you have the right to cancel your order within 7 days (or 14 days if purchased online) without charge; the only liability being for any return carriage costs.
If any items are incorrect, damaged or faulty you should notify us immediately by clicking here. You will need to provide us with the S/C number printed on the white label (found on the furniture). Please return the item(s) in the same condition as received and in the original packaging. Once the items have been returned they will be inspected. You will receive your refund within 30 days of cancellation.
For hygiene reasons, mattresses are excluded from our 7 day (or 14 days if purchased online) money back guarantee unless they are unopened and in original packaging. All our sofas, armchairs and footstools are made to order therefore are excluded from our 7 day (or 14 days if purchased online) money back guarantee.
"

I wish you to take note that the original sales order didn't say anything other than " we offer a 7 day money back guarantee. So which is it? Either it's a guarantee or it isn't. You cannot give with one hand then take away with another.
Then this page on the website also says quite clearly "
This means you have the right to cancel your order within 7 days (or 14 days if purchased online) without charge; the only liability being for any return carriage costs.
"
Clicking on the link "Return Carriage Costs" brings up another page which gives details of how to work out the carriage costs and in this case that equates to a sum of £100 for the dimensions of the two items. That can be the only charge that equates to return CARRIAGE CHARGE. I note that a cancellation amount of 30% of the order value is mentioned here too but as that cannot be construed as a Carriage Charge it cannot be part of a charge which has been suitably advised upon, due to the fact that this charge is found by accident and which isn't a core term that a customer has chance to avail himself of prior to the sale.
In fact the complexity and uncertainty of what the total terms and conditions are become something of a mish mash of confusion and perhaps even obfuscation. First they say that soft goods are made to order so are non refundable. However the items being returned were not made to order anyway. The only loss that may have been suffered was the return carriage costs.


The amount of the deduction of 30% is unconscionable and can only be seen to penal in its application, especially since the goods are still new, unused and can still be sold as new at the current new price applicable at the time. The law on penalties of this nature has recently been tested in the Surpreme Court.



In fact the penal nature of this deduction was not advised according to the good practice of business contracts. A signature on a contract of a rather limited description of the Terms and Conditions, even if in the case of the CUSTOMER AGREEMENT on the Owners Manual cannot take away the penal nature of the charge and cannot pass the test of the man on the London Omibus as being reasonable.



This is my first notification that I do intend to apply legal notification to this issue for a return of the 30%. I await your confirmation of acceptance to this before I progress it further.


I got a call the next day from them and they utterly refused to make headway on this and we argued our points for a good half hour. I told them it was obvious there wasn't going to be a meeting of minds so could he just email me the person and address to whom a Letter Before Action could be sent.

The next day I got a call from a very well-spoken man. He agreed that there did appear to be some sort of confusion of terms and accepted my offer of the actual "Return Carriage Costs to the extent of £100.

So a refund was made for the rest of the payment and we are now all quits. It cost me the £100 but I think that's fair in the circumstances.

For what it's worth, I would have gone to court over this and it would have had to be heard in MY local court, not theirs. It would require them to pay someone, perhaps a local solicitor, to take the case on. I reckon it would cost them more than they could hope to recoup by having my case dismissed in their favour, given I had already offered to pay the £100 Return Carriage Costs.

I was tempted to point him to the fact that I was tapping my head, and then say, "there's no veneer in here"