Tweet
Hi all,
I will make more detailed posts in the coming weeks, but for now, I wanted to pick your brains in preparation for my first time at a Small Claims hearing, as I take on a prominent UK betting company.
SUMMARY
Holidaying abroad for six months last year (lucky me), in what I have since discovered is a 'restricted territory' according to this bookmaker, and therefore unable to log on to their site and place bets whilst there, I called said bookie and was advised to use a VPN service to circumvent the ban. All good. I then went on to place about 3K in losing bets over five months.
I noticed that some bets were not being placed correctly, and complained to them. They then 'noticed' that I was betting from a restricted territory, and locked my account. I told them it was their staff who advised me how to continue using their services, and they failed to respond to this. They told me all remaining open bets on my account would stand when I said I wanted them cancelled and the money refunded if they were not going to give me a chance to win some of my cash back.
Luckily one of those remaining bets went on to win at 250 to 1 odds and net me 3.5K. LOL.
They then emailed me to state that, moving forward, if I placed any more bets from a restricted territory using another account, all bets would be cancelled and all stakes refunded, whether they won or lost.
Based on this, and the fact I did have another account, opened when they banned the first one, I went on to bet another 2.5K. I did it for the fun, knowing if I won I would not get the winnings, and if I lost, I was placing risk free bets and could get this money back.
I then notified the bookie I was abroad, and waited for the refund. None came, and they ignored my emails. I emailed again, and then once more, holding them to what they had told me and telling them the money was needed for the remaining weeks of my holiday. They eventually emailed me back to tell me their terms and conditions stated all bets made from restricted territories would stand. I pointed out their staff had varied these terms - and to refund me or I would have to cancel the last weeks of my long vacation and pay for an early flight home, which I would also expect them to pay for.
They then emailed me to state that according to their system I was in the UK when these bets were placed. I sent copious amounts of proof I was abroad - bank statements showing transactions abroad, flights and hotel bookings, etc. They then emailed me back to state their terms and conditions would stand despite what I was told to the contrary not mentioning the proof I had sent them.
They basically wanted to have their cake and eat it. They would no doubt have noticed immediately if I had won anything and cancelled the bets, as threatened.
I had to purchase an earlier flight home, and promptly took this legal action to recover all bet money and the flight cost.
I also got a Data Subject Access Report as per the Data Protection Act. It shows emails from the staff member who told me all bets, winners or losers, would be cancelled, in which she liaises with her IT people to ascertain the IP of my emails, and therefore that I am in a restricted territory.
We exchanged Defences the same day. I sent this proof, as well as the emails sent whilst abroad when the later bets were placed, and proof that the IP of said emails identifies my being is said restricted territory.
Their Defence doesn't mention their checking the IP's of my emails anywhere, instead it states they ascertained me being abroad from the address I gave them to send me an item of mail, and a phone number I called them from.
So they basically state that they still believe I was in the UK when I placed these bets, when they were sent both copious amounts of proof I was abroad and also they could have checked the IP of my emails to them at this time. Like I said - I have proof that the IP's of said emails were form this restricted territory, and further I have a video that shows the IP when I used the VPN they told me to use, which identifies me as being in the UK - it is the exact same IP as their Defence shows I placed the bets from.
They have also stated that their company cannot be held to what a member of their staff tells me, which seems ridiculous, and also I think is highly irresponsible, and telling.
Finally - I called them again after Defences were filed, and got a recording of another member of their staff advising me how to use their site from a territory where the site was not accessible due to betting being illegal in that country.
I know is seems quite open and shut, a slam dunk if you like, and I am surprised these people want to fight it out - maybe they think I won't turn up or that their solicitors can browbeat me.
So I would appreciate any advice from your skilled and experienced selves, as I have never done this before.
I'll answer all queries promptly and post more questions as they occur to me and I prepare for my day in Court.
Thanks guys and gals,
Andrew
I will make more detailed posts in the coming weeks, but for now, I wanted to pick your brains in preparation for my first time at a Small Claims hearing, as I take on a prominent UK betting company.
SUMMARY
Holidaying abroad for six months last year (lucky me), in what I have since discovered is a 'restricted territory' according to this bookmaker, and therefore unable to log on to their site and place bets whilst there, I called said bookie and was advised to use a VPN service to circumvent the ban. All good. I then went on to place about 3K in losing bets over five months.
I noticed that some bets were not being placed correctly, and complained to them. They then 'noticed' that I was betting from a restricted territory, and locked my account. I told them it was their staff who advised me how to continue using their services, and they failed to respond to this. They told me all remaining open bets on my account would stand when I said I wanted them cancelled and the money refunded if they were not going to give me a chance to win some of my cash back.
Luckily one of those remaining bets went on to win at 250 to 1 odds and net me 3.5K. LOL.
They then emailed me to state that, moving forward, if I placed any more bets from a restricted territory using another account, all bets would be cancelled and all stakes refunded, whether they won or lost.
Based on this, and the fact I did have another account, opened when they banned the first one, I went on to bet another 2.5K. I did it for the fun, knowing if I won I would not get the winnings, and if I lost, I was placing risk free bets and could get this money back.
I then notified the bookie I was abroad, and waited for the refund. None came, and they ignored my emails. I emailed again, and then once more, holding them to what they had told me and telling them the money was needed for the remaining weeks of my holiday. They eventually emailed me back to tell me their terms and conditions stated all bets made from restricted territories would stand. I pointed out their staff had varied these terms - and to refund me or I would have to cancel the last weeks of my long vacation and pay for an early flight home, which I would also expect them to pay for.
They then emailed me to state that according to their system I was in the UK when these bets were placed. I sent copious amounts of proof I was abroad - bank statements showing transactions abroad, flights and hotel bookings, etc. They then emailed me back to state their terms and conditions would stand despite what I was told to the contrary not mentioning the proof I had sent them.
They basically wanted to have their cake and eat it. They would no doubt have noticed immediately if I had won anything and cancelled the bets, as threatened.
I had to purchase an earlier flight home, and promptly took this legal action to recover all bet money and the flight cost.
I also got a Data Subject Access Report as per the Data Protection Act. It shows emails from the staff member who told me all bets, winners or losers, would be cancelled, in which she liaises with her IT people to ascertain the IP of my emails, and therefore that I am in a restricted territory.
We exchanged Defences the same day. I sent this proof, as well as the emails sent whilst abroad when the later bets were placed, and proof that the IP of said emails identifies my being is said restricted territory.
Their Defence doesn't mention their checking the IP's of my emails anywhere, instead it states they ascertained me being abroad from the address I gave them to send me an item of mail, and a phone number I called them from.
So they basically state that they still believe I was in the UK when I placed these bets, when they were sent both copious amounts of proof I was abroad and also they could have checked the IP of my emails to them at this time. Like I said - I have proof that the IP's of said emails were form this restricted territory, and further I have a video that shows the IP when I used the VPN they told me to use, which identifies me as being in the UK - it is the exact same IP as their Defence shows I placed the bets from.
They have also stated that their company cannot be held to what a member of their staff tells me, which seems ridiculous, and also I think is highly irresponsible, and telling.
Finally - I called them again after Defences were filed, and got a recording of another member of their staff advising me how to use their site from a territory where the site was not accessible due to betting being illegal in that country.
I know is seems quite open and shut, a slam dunk if you like, and I am surprised these people want to fight it out - maybe they think I won't turn up or that their solicitors can browbeat me.
So I would appreciate any advice from your skilled and experienced selves, as I have never done this before.
I'll answer all queries promptly and post more questions as they occur to me and I prepare for my day in Court.
Thanks guys and gals,
Andrew
Comment