Taking Court Action Against Vodafone - Remove Default Notice

[R0b]

Re: Taking Court Action Against Vodafone - Remove Default Notice

Looks much better Abbie. Just one thing though

There are several inconsistencies in the Vodafone account notes provided. Despite 4 fraud investigations concluding that no fraud was found and siting ‘normal usage on the account, normal calls to UK landlines and mobiles’ the account notes clearly show that this account was referred to Vodafone’s internal fraud team several times due to high usage in Europe and calls overseas.

The highlighted word needs changing to 'citing'

[AbbieA]

Re: Taking Court Action Against Vodafone - Remove Default Notice

Thanks Rob,

Will send today!

[AbbieA]

Re: Taking Court Action Against Vodafone - Remove Default Notice

Hi Guys,

Quick update, letter to ICO sent last Thursday and received a generic response stating that they aim to reply within 14 days.

Also received a response from Lee (Vodafone) stating:

'Further to my email dated 22 September, I can confirm that the case relating to Operation Rosewood is currently going through litigation.Once the case has been concluded and we have further instructions from the court, I'll let you know.
Unless I have an update sooner, I'll next check this on 9 October.'

Not sure whether its worth waiting it out at this stage or proceeding with court action?

[warwick65]

Re: Taking Court Action Against Vodafone - Remove Default Notice

Hi

The problem is it could take a long time before there is a verdict.

I think initially it will go to magistrates court and not until the CPS is ready to proceed will it be allotted to either magistrates or crown ( I suspect Crown) . Then there will be a hearing and if a not guilty plea is entered a date fro trial which could be a while. If a guilty plea is entered then I suspect it will be a month or two with reports being done before sentencing

[R0b]

Re: Taking Court Action Against Vodafone - Remove Default Notice

Whether you choose to wait it out or not Abbie is entirely up to you, but bear in mind as Warwick has suggested it could take months especially on cases concerning fraud. I suspect there is a no reporting order or something to that effect since there appears to be absolutely nothing on the news front regarding Operation Rosewood in the news. And of course the longer you wait for the case to conclude the longer you have to put up with your damaged credit file.

I did a little digging into the issue of whether civil proceedings are stayed pending the outcome of criminal proceedings and as I thought, the bar is set very high. The test for this was set out in a case a few years ago and is summarised as:

There must be a real risk of serious prejudice to the criminal proceedings to justify the stay of a civil claim pending criminal proceedings.

The Courts discretion to stay part or all of proceedings must take into account the fact that the Claimant has a right to bring a civil claim, it is up to the Defendant to show why the claim should be stayed.

The court must consider whether any safeguards can be put in place and if so, the the claim should not be stayed. Appropriate safeguards might include having the case heard in private, preventing third parties from obtaining any documents submitted to the court in respect of the claim or preventing the judgment being made public until after the criminal trial has concluded.

Like I said, it is up to you as to whether you want to issue proceedings given your circInstances and the evidence you have in your possession. With all due respect to what Lee has told you I am not sure what Vodafone are suggesting about further instructions from the court. I repeat what I've said before in that the ongoing fraud investigation/trial does not prevent Vodafone from removing the default. Their position is made to look even worse if other mobile phone providers are removing the defaults or adverse entries or other assistance.

[slainte caragh]

Re: Taking Court Action Against Vodafone - Remove Default Notice

I am not sure what Vodafone are suggesting about further instructions from the court. I repeat what I've said before in that the ongoing fraud investigation/trial does not prevent Vodafone from removing the default. Their position is made to look even worse if other mobile phone providers are removing the defaults or adverse entries or other assistance.

Lee can't say but as I no longer work in this environment I can. It's ok Lee, mines a coffee, white 1 sugar ta very muchly.

If a case has been sent to the Fraud Squad, a mobile provider can be asked to hold fire on changing anything to do with said accounts until the end of the case. I freely admit I have no idea why but have heard of it before. Wether this is to show the affect this has had on individuals etc I have no clue, mine was not to reason why mine was just to pass the message on without giving too much away.

If this is the case than Lee's hands are well and truly tied. He is not being cloak and dagger to be awkward, this is his job and he has to adhere to strict guidelines and policies... especially where fraud is concerned.

I know that right now he is possibly banging his head against his desk in frustration at not being able to do more! I know I was wherever this situation came up..


As I said Lee, we good

[R0b]

Re: Taking Court Action Against Vodafone - Remove Default Notice

Lee can't say but as I no longer work in this environment I can. It's ok Lee, mines a coffee, white 1 sugar ta very muchly.

If a case has been sent to the Fraud Squad, a mobile provider can be asked to hold fire on changing anything to do with said accounts until the end of the case. I freely admit I have no idea why but have heard of it before. Wether this is to show the affect this has had on individuals etc I have no clue, mine was not to reason why mine was just to pass the message on without giving too much away.

If this is the case than Lee's hands are well and truly tied. He is not being cloak and dagger to be awkward, this is his job and he has to adhere to strict guidelines and policies... especially where fraud is concerned.

I know that right now he is possibly banging his head against his desk in frustration at not being able to do more! I know I was wherever this situation came up..


As I said Lee, we good

I know Lee cannot say what he does or doesn't know, I also have a pretty good idea of how the fraud department works having worked for a period in there some years ago for a mobile provider. Abbie has a right under the DPA to ensure that her data is reported accurately and kept up to date, but if Vodafone's internal policy is to maintain the default on a person's credit file then that is their own prerogative but that does not prevent the individual from bringing a claim. In my view, an individual's right to pursue a claim to rectify their credit file and seek damages greatly outweighs the stay of proceedings of a criminal trial.

There is nothing stopping Vodafone from removing the default and whilst the issues are ongoing and then re-applying it at a later date if there is a change of circumstances or new evidence comes to light. Sometimes it takes people to issue a claim before companies such as Vodafone decide to get themselves into gear.

I am not in any way asking Lee to disclose what he knows, and I am sure he would have been told in no uncertain terms that he cannot disclose any information by higher authority whilst things are ongoing. But this is an issue of whether there is a breach of the DPA and whether Vodafone were right to continue reporting a default despite the evidence gather from Abbie to date - that should not impact or seriously prejudice the criminal trial.

[slainte caragh]

Re: Taking Court Action Against Vodafone - Remove Default Notice

Yeh as I said I don't know why agents are told this, just that we were.

This is to the best of my knowledge when it comes to data sharing, it is again something we were advised as agents so please don't shoot the messenger, when it comes to adding and removing defaults etc etc, the more times a company enters a credit file the worse it looks. For example if you asked for a certain CCA regulated phone contract and the system went down after the credit check we were told to wait at least 48 hours because the fact there had been 2 credit checks in a day would lead the company to believe there had been bad credit or the person was in financial difficulties. Same thing goes with companies changing information, just looking in to a credit rating leaves a footprint,

If a company remove a default and then replace it, it looks worse than if they wait to find out all the info and then backdate it. Now, whether this was the company covering it's own back I have no idea, I just processed the orders and only got involved in CRA disputes as escalations. The above is when I was told by someone in high level complaints when I asked.

With regards to the DPA this is where I think they have dropped one... big style. I am hoping Lee's delay is due to an investigation in to this.


there is a mistake, it needs rectifying.. I am wondering if Vodafone are playing the fraud card to their advantage or trying to?

I agree that Vodaphone need a kick in the pants to get in to gear -- sorry Lee ya know I think the world of you. The majority of Vodafone customers that came to us (yes Lee and I were rivals in work at one stage) were due to bad service/mistakes.

I would suggest waiting for Lee to come back to the OP with his findings, I know him well enough to know he is formulating some kinda plan in that head of his... Sadly he is tied to what he can do so please be kind if he can't do what you want!!

[AbbieA]

Re: Taking Court Action Against Vodafone - Remove Default Notice

Hi Guys,

Thanks for your advice. I will be pressing ahead with and bringing a court case against them and will be seeking damages. I will draft my final letter this week and post it on here before sending. Any help appreciated.

[Amethyst]

Re: Taking Court Action Against Vodafone - Remove Default Notice

Abbie, sorry to go back over this, what were the circumstances of the fraud on this account - as if it is involved with this Operation Rosewood it may be you are alleged to have been involved ( although you'd know about that tbf) - as Rosewood is looking at people who paid students to open mobile accounts in their own names, then ran up huge bills on the students account ( as opposed to someone fraudulently opening an account in your name ( which is what I think your case actually is ?) ) ( ie. it could be held up and included in this criminal case entirely wrongly )

[warwick65]

Re: Taking Court Action Against Vodafone - Remove Default Notice

Is it right to be discussing what may be a huge investigation.
Google only seems to report posts from 2or 3years ago and the link to the met is 404. It also seems several companies(according to Twitter), are not being entirely helpful which suggests something bigger.

[Amethyst]

Re: Taking Court Action Against Vodafone - Remove Default Notice

I don't know about the whys and wherefores of the case, but if Abbie goes to court to ask to remove the default, and her account is subject to the criminal investigation it could just be put on hold pending the outcome of that which ties up the court fees ( which would be for specific performance I believe? so £308 ) for goodness knows how long.

[warwick65]

Re: Taking Court Action Against Vodafone - Remove Default Notice

Sorry I was just worried about discussing an ongoing case and I do see your point. It could easily just be suspended until it was all done which could be - well it seems like it's been ongoing for at least 3 years

[R0b]

Re: Taking Court Action Against Vodafone - Remove Default Notice

I don't know about the whys and wherefores of the case, but if Abbie goes to court to ask to remove the default, and her account is subject to the criminal investigation it could just be put on hold pending the outcome of that which ties up the court fees ( which would be for specific performance I believe? so £308 ) for goodness knows how long.

My post at #80 explains the criteria for staying proceedings pending criminal investigation. Though I don't think Abbie would need to pay the fee for specific performance, simply because if the claim was successful then it would naturally flow that the default ought to be removed, and she could ask the court to declare that Vodafone were in breach of principle 4, and as such, the order to remove the adverse entries would be necessary. If the court didn't make such an order and Vodafone refused to remove the adverse entries, then it goes back round in a circle in that they're in further breach which would more than likely attract a claim for aggravated damages. Equally, any damages obtained from Vodafone could then be used to bring a claim for further damages and/or specific performance if in breach.

So a money claim online wold more than likely bring Vodafone to the table for settlement, i'd be surprised if they defended it right through to trial, but you never know.

[AbbieA]

Re: Taking Court Action Against Vodafone - Remove Default Notice

Hi Guys,

I have received a response from the ICO:

Thank you for your further correspondence dated 21 September 2017 regarding your concerns about Vodafone.

We note you would like us to consider whether or not Vodafone are in breach of Principle 4 of the Data Protection Act (DPA). This is because you feel you have gathered enough evidence to show that the default should not have been applied to your credit file.

Although we appreciate your concerns, it is our understanding that Vodafone are aware that the information they are holding on your account may be inaccurate as they are currently carrying out a fraud investigation.

In the event that an organisation is aware that they may be holding inaccurate information due to possible fraud and they are currently carrying out an investigation into this, then this is not an issue that the ICO or the DPA can address.

The ICO does not investigate matters relating to fraud or fraud disputes as this is not within our remit.

However, once a fraud investigation has been concluded and in the event that fraud is confirmed, the organisation, in this case Vodafone, should amend / correct your account accordingly.

An organisation is not obliged to amend / correct your account until a fraud investigation has been concluded.

In this case we are aware that Vodafone has previously informed you that a number of individuals have been arrested and were pending court appearance at Southwark Crown Court in September. Vodafone have also explained that your account will therefore be left cancelled and collectable until the case concludes at court.

If you require further information as to when the court case will be concluded we suggest you contact Vodafone directly.

We are sorry we are unable to assist further however hope this information is useful to you.

So looks like that's a dead end! Only one thing left to do now.