Rejecting used car < 30 days

[schooleydoo]

Morning.

I've lost all faith in the car I purchased for my wife at the beginning of the month from a non-franchised local dealer (with excellent reviews) and am hoping for some advice and success stories from people who have rejected a used car car outright.

I know this currently is an option to me, but realistically in the real world, doing so comes with some risks. If the dealer disputes my reason to reject and refuses to accept the car back and provide a refund (£6k), I cannot drive the car whilst fighting this decision through legal routes. This could take months and would leave my wife car-less. I'm therefore hoping once I provide a few possible reasons for rejecting, someone can tell me if any of them are indisputable.

The 30th day since purchase is this Friday. My main concern is once this day passes, it is much easier for the dealer to refuse to do any more work on the car and revert me to the warranty supplied (mechanical only, limited to £500), which would not cover this water issue.

Below is a long summary of the history so far.



Quote:

Dear x, I am writing to formally express my concern with the used car I purchased from your company, on 30th November 2016. This is due to the continuous issues with water in the cabin of the car. The car has been returned to you three times for this fault and it has still not been rectified. The car is now suffering from mould and smells damp at all times. It is not a nice place to be in for anyone. Now it is getting colder, I have also recently noticed condensation on the inside of the windows that is turning to ice. As you know, this car was purchased for my wife as her Mini was impractical with a six month old baby. However, having to clear ice from the inside of the car every day with a six month old baby is far more impractical and will render the car unusable for her. The spreading mould is a health concern and as a precaution since its discovery, we no longer use the car. This letter aims to detail the work performed by you so far and formally request you resolve the underlying issue via a VW dealership before returning the car to us without any symptoms of the fault such as damp carpets or insulation, or the presence of mould. 30/12/16. Agreed purchase. You agreed to replace rear discs and pads, bonnet release spring, rotate tyres, and provide a full MOT as well as perform an 82 point check. All these requests were met and collection was organised the following day. 01/12/16. After collection in the morning, we returned the car four hours later to report an electrical fault with the sun roof and pools of water in the nearside foot wells. You explained this was due to the drain hoses of the sunroof having been cleared of debris two weeks ago and not being cleaned up afterwards. You advised me to get the carpets cleaned with a wet and dry vacuum and return the car the next day for the sun roof to be repaired. 02/12/16 – returned car. I took the car to a local valeter who used a wet and dry vacuum for 15 minutes to remove the water, before returning to you for the sun roof repair. I also requested for you to check the return of the gear stick as it was not returning to the centre when released out of gear. Finally I had noticed an engine warning light appear briefly, twice, that you would check. 03/12/16. You called and advised that the sunroof had been repaired and a spring had been replaced in the gear stick. You wanted to keep the car however, to ensure the sun roof was no longer leaking by running a hose over it and try and replicate the engine warning light as no fault codes were stored. 05/12/16 – collected car. My wife collected the car and was told no leaks could be found on the roof and to leave the heater running to dry out the carpet. The engine warning light fault could not be replicated. I returned home from work and found the carpet in the front and rear foot well was once again soaking wet, despite being valeted and the heater on when being driven. I called to report this and you requested its return once more. We agreed on Saturday as my wife required the car for the remainder of that week as I was overseas. 10/12/16 – returned car. Collected and again returned. I returned car for you to diagnose the cause of the water ingress once more. I also asked you to check steering wheel wobble under acceleration above 70MPH. I collected the car that afternoon and was told a missing bung in the floor had been located and replaced, which should allow the carpet to dry. I was told to leave heaters running to accelerate this. I was also told a loose engine mount had been tightened which had reduced steering wheel wobble to an acceptable level. I left the heaters on as instructed but after 2 hours, still found the carpet and insulation sodden. When trim was removed, I found the insulation under the carpet was also sodden and acting as a sponge. I again called to report this and returned the car to you that day. 16/12/16 - collected car. Collected car and found carpets almost dry. I was told that the carpets had been removed and dried, all water removed from the insulation below the carpet and driven with the carpet out to ensure no water entered the cabin from above or below. 23/12/16. Car intentionally left unused since collection the previous week. I found condensation on inside of windows and the carpet still felt damp in places. I noticed mould on the roofline, seatbelts and seats. I installed two 1KG silica bags in an attempt to reduce the spread of mould. 27/12/16. Despite presence of silica bags, I found a small patch of water in rear passenger foot well. Removed trim and found insulation below carpet once more sodden. As mentioned previously, this is the fourth time I have contacted you to report the same fault. The car has travelled less than 200 miles in our possession and I have been within my rights to reject the car at any point over the last month due to this and other faults discovered. Although I considered this, so far your approach and willingness to address the reported issues has been fantastic. That being said, I feel I have been more than fair in delivering the car back to you and giving you time to diagnose and repair the problems however you see fit, but I now must insist the car is inspected elsewhere. Although I am sure your chosen garage is competent in repairing a wide variety of cars, they have not been able to resolve this issue. I suggest specialist knowledge of this particular model is required and request the car to be delivered to and repaired by a VW dealership before being returned damp, smelly and mould free. Please advise your intentions so we can finally put this issue to bed.

Since sending this via email last night, the dealer has called and offered to look at it again. I refused and we have agreed for VW to diagnose the fault, then the dealer act on that diagnosis to repair though their (cheaper) local garage. Then get the carpets dried, and the car valeted.

However, the time it will take for this to happen will push me past the 30 day limit I have to reject due to one of the following from the Consumer Rights Act 2015:

• The goods must be of satisfactory quality (taking into account that it is used)
• The goods must be fit for purpose (i.e the car must be roadworthy and driveable unless described otherwise) including any purpose that you specify to the dealer
• The goods must match the description given at the time of purchase

As the car is right now, can I reject it using any of those three stipulations?

I drove the car last night to check the steering wheel wobble over 70MPH under acceleration and it is still there, but now only begins at 85MPH. When leaving the drive there was a knocking every time the rear wheel rotated for around 2 miles, it then disappeared. I assumed this was due to the car standing for over a week but it adds to the lost faith in the car overall.

Lastly, the dealer told me at the time the cam belt had been done by them recently. When checking the history in his office I found that it had actually been done in May 2012 at 78k. They backtracked and said they were mistaken and it was a throttle actuator that was replaced. I have proof of the parts ordered by them for the actuator. It has now done 100k but VW recommend the cam belt is replaced every 4 years. The cam belt is therefore overdue replacement.

If I notify them, I imagine the will replace it for me. However, can I use the cam belt being overdue alone to reject the car today?

[ostell]

Re: Rejecting used car &lt; 30 days

You have already told them there are defects and they agreed that there were but would like to remedy those defects. The 30 days is paused until such time as any repairs are satisfactory. Get your rejection letter in now. You still have water coming in, which is a good a reason as any to reject. You do not have to accept a promise to remedy.

In theory they have 14 days to refund you money in full. The alternative is that you issue a court claim. In addition to the price of the car you also add in any extra expenses such as your wife having to use a hire car or taxis. By the sound of it the problems may never get fixed so probably be better to take the hit now.

Even if it gets past the 30 days there are 6 months to reject if the fault was present when th car was purchased.

Look around the forum for other letters written to car dealers and modify to suit. Hand deliver that letter before Friday.

[schooleydoo]

Re: Rejecting used car &lt; 30 days

Thanks for the fast response.

If the dealer decides to refuse and I issue a court claim, I want to ensure I have everything I need to prove my case before handing the car back.

I have nothing in writing from the dealer acknowledging any faults since purchase. It has all been verbal so far. Is my above letter enough?

If I were to allow VW to inspect the car and they are either unable to locate the source of the leak or find other serious faults with the car, this would provide more ammunition for a small claims court (if it goes that far). Do you think it would make sense to wait for this inspection on Friday before rejecting? I would still plan to reject the car on that day (day 30).

Do I need to return the car back to them at the time of rejection, or can this be done a reasonable amount of time after the letter is delivered?

[des8]

Re: Rejecting used car &lt; 30 days

Can only reinforce what @ostell has said.
Deliver letter rejecting vehicle as not of satisfactory quality.
As this is within the first thirty days, and you have given many opportunities to repair multiple defects, the trader really has no choice but refund you in full, And you can still claim for damages.
How did you pay for the vehicle? Cash/debit card/ credit card/ finance?There might be other ways of recovering your money if the dealer is less than co-operative!


Following your second post in response to Ostell, get that rejection notice in.
Forget about VW inspections.
The car is obviously not of satisfactory quality, you did not ever have to agree to let tem repair it, and as they seem incaable of doing so I would not let the matter drag on further.

[schooleydoo]

Re: Rejecting used car &lt; 30 days

Unfortunately Des, it was a part exchange with the remainder via Bank Transfer to avoid the outrageous fee imposed by the dealer for Credit/Debit. In hindsight, I have realised those fee's are likely so high to discourage you from using them and gaining protection.

[des8]

Re: Rejecting used car &lt; 30 days

So the return has to be your cash, via bank transfer and the return of your traded in vehicle (if they still have it)

[ostell]

Re: Rejecting used car &lt; 30 days

They are obliged to pick up the car. You do not have to take it to them.

[schooleydoo]

Re: Rejecting used car &lt; 30 days

That's good news.

In my hours of research today I have read a few things that I am hoping one of you may be able to clarify.

Des, you advised above to forget the VW inspection. However I have read conflicting posts on here on other threads posing the question of whether the consumer or the seller is responsible for proving the fault existed within the first 30 days. I could not find a clear opinion on this however. If I need it. the VW inspection could be my proof, at no cost to me. I have no other supporting paperwork, aside from the letter I sent to the dealer above.

Also, I read on another website (but typically, can no longer find!) that the dealer should provide a full refund of the agreed sale price of the car and they should not return my traded in vehicle. In my case the sale price was £6000. £3000 of that was my traded in vehicle. Should I therefore ask for the entire £6000 to be refunded?

[des8]

Re: Rejecting used car &lt; 30 days

1) if you use the short term ight to reject (the first thirty days) it is up to the buyer to prove the fault was there when the car was purchased.
In your case ypu have the problem of water ingress, and the visit to the local valet station to support the allegation.
They would IMO be foolish to deny your rejection and risk a court claim with the associated costs.

2) you can request the full £6000, but the trader would be within his rights to return your £3000 plus your p/ex vehicle (as long as its condition is as when p/exchanged)


You have said the dealer has been remedying the faults as they became evident and that they have a good local reputation.
Taking that into account, and the willingness to have VW check the vehicle you might decide to retain the vehicle and try for a price reduction (this is also one of your options under CRA 2015)

[schooleydoo]

Re: Rejecting used car &lt; 30 days

Unfortunately Des, I handed in the receipt for the valet to the dealer, for them to reimburse me for those costs. With that in mind, as it is up to me as the buyer to prove the fault I have decided to allow the VW inspection tomorrow to proceed, giving me proof the fault exists at the very least.

Ostell advised above that the 30 day short term reject window is paused until the repair is satisfactory. As I made them aware on the day of collection, I am at best still on day one, possibly day 19 (which is how long the car has been in my possession, not being repaired) or at worst day 30 tomorrow.

One thing has been niggling at me and I have been regretting ever since: Throughout all communication, the dealer has been very keen for me to provide a positive review on Google. I eventually did so one week ago in the hope of keeping them on side (before finding out the rights available to me). Will this cause an issue if the matter went to court? Review as follows:

Honest and reasonable guys. Our car had a couple of issues after purchase but they were happy to resolve them quickly and without argument. It's nice to see the after sales service to be as good as before purchase. Would happily buy again.

Once I have the VW inspection paperwork, I plan to deliver the following letter:

30/12/2016
Dear Sir,
Re: car
I bought the above car from your company on 1st December 2016. Since collection a persistent water leak has resulted in the front and rear nearside foot wells becoming water logged.

This was shown to you at your dealership, just four hours after collection. The fault has remained since then, despite giving you three opportunities to resolve. Please refer to my previous letter, emailed to you on 27/12/16 for full details of the fault.
The car has been in my possession just 19 days of the last 30 and is therefore within the short term right to reject window of the Consumer Rights Act 2015. The water logging as well as the resulting odour and mould mean the car is not of satisfactory quality, in my opinion. I refer to the attached report from VW to support this claim.

In addition to this problem, I have also found paint defects in the finish of the offside front door which are of a poor standard and colour match to the rest of the car. This does not match the description given on the advert of the car, stating the bodywork is “excellent” with no mention of a poor repair having taken place.
The advert also states the tyre condition is “excellent”, yet the MOT certificate, dated the day before purchase advises that the nearside front tyre is “close to the legal limit”.
Finally you stated and provided documentation showing that the cam belt was replaced in May 2012, at 77,000 miles and therefore does not need to be replaced. This contradicts VW’s recommended replacement interval of four years. With the above in mind, I claim that the car did not match the description at time of purchase.

I refer you to the consumer Rights Act 2015 which states that the car I bought from you must be of satisfactory quality and must match the description at time of purchase. From my own judgement I believe you are contravening the Act

I understand the legislation allows me to reject the car and I am entitled to a full refund by the same method in which I paid for the car. Therefore I request that you either refund me the £6000 sales price of the car or return my part exchange car, along with the balance I paid of £3000.

I expect to hear from you to confirm you have received this letter so I can arrange a refund or replacement within the next 14 days. I have stopped driving the car in line with my rejection (mileage currently 100763) and I request that you collect it at the earliest opportunity.

If you fail to accept my right to reject this car I will be forced to progress with legal proceedings in the County Court in order to recover the money.

Yours Sincerely

[des8]

Re: Rejecting used car &lt; 30 days

:thumb:

[schooleydoo]

Re: Rejecting used car &lt; 30 days

It would appear I either misjudged the dealer, or my original letter gave them pause.

I took the car to the VW dealer as agreed, however when VW called the dealer at my request, to ensure the invoice would be settled by them and not me, the dealer then refused to pay for diagnosis.

I then told the dealer via telephone that I wanted a refund immediately, with the above letter at the ready if they argued. They agreed without quibble and refunded via Bank Transfer on the spot.
I now have my original car back and the £3000 in my account.

Thank you both for the advice. Hopefully my experience will be of use to somebody in future.

Happy New Year

[des8]

Re: Rejecting used car &lt; 30 days

Perhaps they had done dome homework
Thanks for letting us know the result
Happy New Year