"Theft by fraud" of van that was paid for but not delivered

[Arcadian]

To cut a long story short, I paid up front to a dealer for a used van that was meant to be delivered on a certain date. They kept putting off delivery due to supposed faults with the van, lack of parts etc.

As I mainly needed the vehicle for a 2 week period of work to help out a charity, and the delivery date that was eventually promised was after the end of that period, I requested to cancel.

They promised and pretended to refund for a couple of weeks until I mentioned the police, at which point they told me that if I wanted it I should go and pick it up. No address was provided and the addresses that are on their website and on eBay are vague or fake, when you look into them.

I paid by BACS. Yes, I know. I've been buying and selling online for years and I don't normally get caught out...

Police are trying not to get involved and Action Fraud are not very interested, despite there being some evidence of other fraudulent activity.

What do I do next? Im no stranger to County Court as I took a vehicle dealer to it before, however we settled during arbitration so I'm pretty vague on procedure after that.

[paulajayne]

Re: "Theft by fraud" of van that was paid for but not delivered

"their website"


Do a "whois" lookup which should reveal an address for the website owner. - May help.

[Arcadian]

Re: "Theft by fraud" of van that was paid for but not delivered

"their website"


Do a "whois" lookup which should reveal an address for the website owner. - May help.

Thank you but already tried. They are hiding behind an anonymity service.

Ebay won't help with contact details, they told me that the police would have to request them. I told the officer who is currently avoiding getting involved. As far as I know he hasn't followed it up.

[wales01man]

Re: "Theft by fraud" of van that was paid for but not delivered

Thinking SCAM here does this Dealer have anything on ebay now? if it is a business would think they would have an address on their pages

[Arcadian]

Re: "Theft by fraud" of van that was paid for but not delivered

Thinking SCAM here does this Dealer have anything on ebay now? if it is a business would think they would have an address on their pages

Still trading on eBay. The address provided, as a requirement by eBay, is basically incomplete. It also fails to even slightly match the addresses of the limited company or the director.
I've done research through Companies House info and they seem to have been involved in numerous slightly dodgy looking limited companies over the years.

The company that is linked to the eBay seller is also currently "dormant", so I don't really know where that leaves me with regard to County Court action. As the sale presumably couldn't have been legitimately carried out by a dormant company, can I take the seller as an individual to court instead?

One last point of interest; on their eBay contact info they are using a legitimate UK VAT number, however the number belonged to a long ago dissolved company!


Thanks for the ideas offered so far, I appreciate any help.

[ostell]

Re: "Theft by fraud" of van that was paid for but not delivered

Since you have now discovered all these matters why not relay your findings to ebay and show that the listings are fraudulent and any contract ebay have with them is also fraudulent.

[Arcadian]

Re: "Theft by fraud" of van that was paid for but not delivered

Since you have now discovered all these matters why not relay your findings to ebay and show that the listings are fraudulent and any contract ebay have with them is also fraudulent.

Unfortunately having dealt with eBay for many years I know it will sadly be a waste of my time. I've already reported my basic issues with the seller and they assured me that they would take "appropriate action" (special eBay code for "do nothing").

They even had the nerve to tell me in so many words that to be safe I should have used PayPal - however I know full well that PayPal buyer protection does not apply to any motorised vehicle!

[Arcadian]

Re: "Theft by fraud" of van that was paid for but not delivered

Can anyone clarify a couple of points please;

1. As the company that I was supposedly dealing with was, and continues to be shown with Companies House as "Dormant", can I take the seller in person to court instead (if it comes to that).

2. As I believe that I have paid for the vehicle in question and can prove this, do I have any claim to title of it and thus could I attempt to have it seized/recovered?

Thanks in advance for any help offered. I'm currently purchasing my first house, having scraped money together for years, and I really need to try to get back the money or have the vehicle to use.

[Arcadian]

Re: "Theft by fraud" of van that was paid for but not delivered

I have sent an email to the police officer supposedly dealing with the crime, asking that he make official enquiries with Ebay as to what other contact information they have, and why they have failed to act on the information I gave them regarding the incomplete/incorrect contact details that still appear on the seller's active listings.

Any help with the points in the above post would still be very much appreciated.

[des8]

Re: "Theft by fraud" of van that was paid for but not delivered

Can anyone clarify a couple of points please;

1. As the company that I was supposedly dealing with was, and continues to be shown with Companies House as "Dormant", can I take the seller in person to court instead (if it comes to that).

2. As I believe that I have paid for the vehicle in question and can prove this, do I have any claim to title of it and thus could I attempt to have it seized/recovered?

Thanks in advance for any help offered. I'm currently purchasing my first house, having scraped money together for years, and I really need to try to get back the money or have the vehicle to use.

RE1) no, you purchased from the company, and it is the company you sue.
The "dormant" really refers to the fact it is registered with HMRC as not trading. If it starts trading HMRC have to be informed within three months.
You could report the matter (including VAT charge) to HMRC, but they will probably wriggle out of any penalty and it won't help you , tho' you might feel a bit bettermasroll:

Re 2) If you bought online are you sure the vehicle exists? if it does does that company have possession and ownership of it?

[Arcadian]

Re: "Theft by fraud" of van that was paid for but not delivered

RE1) no, you purchased from the company, and it is the company you sue.
The "dormant" really refers to the fact it is registered with HMRC as not trading. If it starts trading HMRC have to be informed within three months.
You could report the matter (including VAT charge) to HMRC, but they will probably wriggle out of any penalty and it won't help you , tho' you might feel a bit bettermasroll:

Re 2) If you bought online are you sure the vehicle exists? if it does does that company have possession and ownership of it?

1. If the company is dormant then when I win the claim against it, what can I expect to recover?

2. The vehicle exists, I can't prove that they had ownership of it but signs suggest that they did. Where it is now I do not know.

I'm basing my assumption that I could claim title to the van on something that happened to me a few years ago. I bought a couple of machines (in good faith) on ebay, it turned out that 2 different companies still provably owned these machines. The police were extremely diligent in recovering the machines from me and returning them to their owners. That one is a whole story in itself to be honest!

Thanks for your advice and help.

[des8]

Re: "Theft by fraud" of van that was paid for but not delivered

1. If the company is dormant then when I win the claim against it, what can I expect to recover?
Possibly nothing if they have no traceable assets, and have otherwise disposed of the vehicle.
As you know winning in court is only worthwhile if other side have assets
2. The vehicle exists, I can't prove that they had ownership of it but signs suggest that they did. Where it is now I do not know.
You could try DVLA, as you have possible reasonable cause https://www.gov.uk/request-information-from-dvla

I'm basing my assumption that I could claim title to the van on something that happened to me a few years ago. I bought a couple of machines (in good faith) on ebay, it turned out that 2 different companies still provably owned these machines. The police were extremely diligent in recovering the machines from me and returning them to their owners. That one is a whole story in itself to be honest!

Thanks for your advice and help.

Answers in red

[Arcadian]

Re: "Theft by fraud" of van that was paid for but not delivered

Food for thought, thank you.

[Arcadian]

Re: "Theft by fraud" of van that was paid for but not delivered

Quick question; I need to write a Letter Before Action.

As it is to a trader behind a limited company, do I address it simply to that entity?

Or do I address it to the principle of the business (who is the sole director), at the limited company;
ie.
To Mr Arthur Noel Other
S. C. A. M. Vehicles Limited

?

Thanks for any advice as always.

[des8]

Re: "Theft by fraud" of van that was paid for but not delivered

If I had paid the money (post 1) to a limited company, I would address the LBA to the company.
I would mark it for the attention of a particular person, but start "Dear Sir".

But don't suppose it really matters as presumably it is going to be a small claims track matter.