Used Car Fault

[Strudul]

Hi

I bought a used car from an official dealership and it developed a couple of problems. The main one being a faulty release bearing (part of the clutch assembly).

I went back to the dealer about 20 days after purchasing the car and explained the problems. They told me to book it into the service department and they would get it sorted.

When I bought the car, I also got 18 months RAC warranty, which covers the faulty part in question.

It took 2 weeks of faffing about and having RAC technicians inspect the car and sending it to specialists to diagnose the fault, but I finally got it back and the fault has been fixed.

Now, the warranty provider has agreed to cover all labour and the cost of replacing the faulty part itself, however the replacement part can only be bought as part of a clutch kit and they are refusing to cover cost of the rest of the kit (~£400). As such, the dealership has passed this charge onto me.

Questions:
- It's no longer within 30 days of purchase, but it was when I reported the problem. As such, is the responsibility of repair costs mine or the dealers?
- As the replacement part can only be bought as part of a kit, should I be able to argue this with the warranty provider and request they cover the full cost?

Any help appreciated.

Cheers

EDIT: Car has ~70k miles in case that changes anything.

[Strudul]

Re: Used Car Fault

Also, I just had a look online, and it seems that you can in fact buy the replacement part required by itself...

Not sure what the terms on the warranty are though - could be that parts have to be purchased from specific places that didn't sell the part individually?

Either way, where do I stand with having extra parts installed that weren't required / asked for?

[des8]

Re: Used Car Fault

Hi there

The dealer is liable.
You could have rejected the vehicle within the first thirty days, but elected to allow the dealer one attempt at repair.
This he has done.
However that repair is at his cost in its entirety.
The RAC warranty is meant to be in addition to your statutory rights, so in this case refer to Consumer Rights Act 2015 sec23 (2)
If the consumer requires the trader to repair or replace the goods, the trader must—

(a)

do so within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to the consumer, and

(b)

bear any necessary costs incurred in doing so (including in particular the cost of any labour, materials or postage).

Return to dealer and tell him he will pay the balance or you will see him in court (politely and confirm in writing!)

[Strudul]

Re: Used Car Fault

snip

Thanks alot, that's what I thought.

Couple more questions...

Does it matter what the fault is, or is any fault eligible? I.e would there be any argument that the fault is not major enough / is expected due to the mileage? (Not saying that is the case, but I don't know enough to say otherwise).

There was another fault that I mentioned to them when I initially took the car back (a problem with the gears - presumably the synchromesh), however they were unable to diagnose this even after sending the gearbox to a specialist. Any advice how to deal with this? Should I just go back to them and ask them to try again, or can I go elsewhere to get it diagnosed and repaired then ask them to foot the bill?

Cheers.

[des8]

Re: Used Car Fault

The severity of the fault will depend on the age of the vehicle, but the vehicle must be fit for purpose.
If the fault appears in the first thirty days and you wish to reject the vehicle you, the buyer, have to show the fault was present when purchased
A faulty clutch in 30 days?... must have been on its way out when purchased\

Regarding the repair, you have to give the trader a chance.
If the repair is impossible or disproportionate to your other remedies you cannot force the dealer.
This leaves you with rejection of the vehicle.

The thirty day time limit to reject the vehicle in full is stayed when you request a repair, and is not restarted until the vehicle is returned repaired.
As the faulty gearbox has not been sorted and the dealer doesn'tseem to intend to sort it I would be inclined to reject the vehicle and recover all my money.
You could not take it elsewhere without their prior agreement.

[Strudul]

Re: Used Car Fault

Car is about 9 years old. Fit for purpose sounds ambiguous. It functions as a car, it just made / makes unhealthy sounds, the cause of which will eventually lead to further damage and part failure.
Does that mean it could be argued that the car is fit for purpose at the moment (even if it is showing signs it won't be in the future)?

The gearbox repair shouldn't be too expensive and I believe most of the cost should be recoverable using the RAC warranty, so hopefully they will prefer to provide a repair. I'd rather not reject it as that would mean the inconvenience of being without a car while I find a replacement and also money wasted on tax / insurance.

I suppose regarding the gearbox it would be best to give them 2 options:
- reattempt diagnosis and repair of the gearbox (suggest a different specialist)
- offer to sort it myself (ideally under warranty) and request they cover any costs

I think part of the problem is that the dealership (Citroen) is not experienced in the make of car I have (Nissan).

[des8]

Re: Used Car Fault

A car sounding "unhealthy" doesn't sound that "fit" for anything.
If my cars start making "funny" noises I cease driving them and get spannering!

If you are happy to negotiate with them, there is no reason not to.
IMO however you should also remind them of your right to reject, and to retain that right.
If they agree to another repair attempt, you need to retain your right to reject in case the attempts fail!

[Strudul]

Re: Used Car Fault

Fair point.

Thanks for the help.

[Strudul]

Re: Used Car Fault

Hopefully you can provide some more help @des8

The dealer is still refusing to take responsibility. They are trying to charge me for a clutch replacement they did and refusing to carry out a repair on the gearbox (I think the synchros are gone).

They claim the problems were not present at point of sale - which from my understanding is wrong because it happened within 30 days.

I was reading this Which? guide and it mentions getting the car repaired elsewhere and then claiming the cost.

"If the dealer agrees to repair the vehicle, the repairs have to be carried out within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to you.If the dealer refuses, you could:

• take the car elsewhere to be repaired and claim the cost"

Would I be able to do that, or is that only an option once the dealer actually agrees to carry out repairs?

Cheers

[des8]

Re: Used Car Fault

Regarding the right to reject the Act at first sight seems a bit contrary:
If rejecting in the first 30 days the purchaser has to show the fault was present when the vehicle was purchased.
If rejecting in the next 5 months it is assumed the fault was present when the vehicle was purchased, and it is for the seller to prove otherwise
I think you can probably assume the clutch problem was present when the vehicle was purchased, but do you know exactly what the problem was?

Have you anything in writing yet?
This is looking like ending in court, so you need to start a paper trial.

I would suggest a letter (sent signed for) confirming your purchase of Nissan XXXX, reg no XXXXXX for £xxxx on dd/mm/yy.
Point out that the vehicle was not fit for purpose as 1)the clutch was faulty and 2) the gearbox is excessively noisy.
You allowed the dealer the chance to rectify the problems, and you note they have replaced the clutch due to a faulty release bearing mechanism, but are refusing to rectify the gearbox fault.
Although you retain the right to reject the vehicle, you are prepared to give them one more opportunity to effect a repair (Sec 19 & 23 of CRA 2015)
If they decline this offer you will take the vehicle elsewhere for repair.
If a repair can be effected at a proportionate cost you will authorise repairs and look to the dealer for reimbursement via your right for a price reduction (Sec 19, 20 & 24 of CRA 2015)
If repairs cannot be effected you will be rejecting the vehicle and looking for a full refund of purchase price and your additional costsfrom the dealership.(Sec 20 & 22 of CRA 2015)

If it becomes necessary you will initiate court action to recover your losses, relying on the provisions of te Consumer Rights Act 2015

Give them 7 days in which to respond

[Strudul]

Re: Used Car Fault

Thanks for the quick response.

So you are saying I need to prove the faults were there when I bought the car? How would I go about doing that?
It seems strange though, surely if you knew about the faults at point of sale you wouldn't have bought the car or would have negotiated based on their presence?

All I know about the faulty clutch is that the release bearing was faulty - i guess it was worn.
The gearbox is yet to be successfully diagnosed, but I've asked multiple mechanics as well as Nissan themselves and they believe it to be a faulty syncromesh.

There's been multiple emails sent back and forth which I can forward onto you / send via PM if you like.

Would you recommend that course of action suggested over requesting a letter of deadlock and involving the ombudsman?

I'm currently waiting for a response from the dealer as they said they are going to send me a letter.

[des8]

Re: Used Car Fault

If the clutch fault was due to wear, it must have been unfit for purpose when you purchased the vehicle.... unless you really abuse a vehicle yo can't wear it out in a fortnight.
Was the gearbox noisy when you purchased the vehicle? If so that would be an indication it was faulty at the time of purchase.

Re ombudsman: are you referring to the consumer ombudsman? If so is the company you are dealing with signed up to it?
Or is this dealer a member of a trade association which offers ADR ?

Alternatively when purchasing the car did you use a credit card or finance?

You say there has been a lot of dialogue (but apparently little action!)
I personally would be opting for rejection (which you didn't want) or getting a quote for the gearbox repair and then making a decision.
I would not be waiting on yet another letter, but would be preparing my next step.

[Strudul]

Re: Used Car Fault

As it was the release bearing that went, I think it would be extremely hard to pin it on the driver as (unlike the clutch plate), it's not something the driver can damage, it just wears over time.

Just to clarify, the gearbox issue is that it's very hard to change gear sometimes and there is a noticeable grinding sound when trying to engage 6th (mainly).
I noticed the gearbox was a bit stiff during the test drive (which I believe is not uncommon for the car), but I didn't notice any grinding noises. However, if it is the syncromesh, this isn't a part that wears in a few days, it happens over many many years.

I was referring to the consumer ombudsman, but I'm unsure of whether the dealer is signed up to it.
Looking on their website, there is a page on ADR and it mentions ombudsman at the bottom, Not sure if this page only relates to new cars or used ones also though.
I can send you a PM with a link to the dealers website if that helps.

I paid for the car in full using credit card.

Nissan said they would be happy to diagnose the problem, but obviously I will have to pay for that myself. presumably I can then attempt to claim this back later on?

Thanks for the help.

[des8]

Re: Used Car Fault

As the dealer is signed upto an ADR scheme, certainly worth trying them first as it will be free, and if you are not satisfied with the outcome you can still initiate court proceedings.

And as you paid bt credit card you have the possibility of a section 75 claim

[Strudul]

Re: Used Car Fault

Back again. :santa_smiley:

Haven't taken it any further, but have had some progress with the dealer.

They have agreed to cover the cost of the clutch replacement, and have arranged for an independent engineer to test drive the car and diagnose the gearbox issue. They haven't specifically agreed to cover the cost of the gearbox repairs as of yet, but fingers crossed.

However, I'm also having an issue with the subwoofer now. I'm getting a popping sound at at higher volumes and it sometimes cuts out for a few minutes. I'm not sure if it's the subwoofer that's blown or a fault on the amplifier. It's all the stock OEM system, there's no aftermarket head unit or speakers that could have damaged anything.

Do you think this type of fault would also be covered under the CRA. It is still within the initial 6 months.

Cheers.