Faulty car

[Juliaforster]

Hi. We purchased a citreon C5 on 30th Jan 2016. On test driving, the car ran fine and we took it home the same day. The car was next driven on the 1st Feb and things were very different. After struggling for a few weeks we booked it into citreon dealer to have it looked at as the car is under warranty. They had the car for 2 days and eventually told us there is a lot wrong with the car and told us to get our money back. We spoke with the trader who we purchased the vehicle from and told him the car was not fit for purpose and we had been advised to reject the car and get our money back which he declined. We spoke with citizens advice the same day which was the 19th Feb 2016 and they informed us of our rights. We sent a letter to the trader requesting a full refund which he has not responded to in the time given so I have now wrote to him again asking the same thing with another 14 days to respond or we will be going to small claims court. My question is. My husband signed a form stating he was satisfied with the car as the car drove ok at the time but when the car was started from cold it didn't drive the same at all and also with what the citreon dealer said which we have a copy of the diagnostic testing. If this goes to small claims court, have we a good chance of getting a full refund?

[Kati]

Re: Faulty car

[MENTION=71570]R0b[/MENTION] [MENTION=39710]des8[/MENTION] ... any ideas??

[ostell]

Re: Faulty car

If you have a report from the Citroen dealer detailing the faults then include a copy with the letter before claim. Say that you are rejecting under the Consumer Rights Act 2015. I think you will have a very good chance of recovering, especially with a defects report.

Under the act you can reject a defective item within 30 days of supply and expect your money back. Here's a summary of it.

Looks like a lot of traders are being caught out by the act.

[Juliaforster]

Re: Faulty car

I sent him a copy of the report with the 1st letter on the 19th of Feb but he has not responded. Posted next letter out today. If he doesn't respond to this letter within 14 days, how long could we expect to wait before it goes to court and get our money back?

[R0b]

Re: Faulty car

[MENTION=39331]ostell[/MENTION] is right, the Consumer Rights Act extends the right to reject any goods within 30 days where there is a fault, without any quibble. You have done the right thing in sending a copy of the report and allowing the trader 14 days to respond before you take any action.

As the dealer has failed to respond you are within your rights initiate legal proceedings against the trader. Before you do so, is the trader independent or part of a dealership group and is it a limited company? You need to make sure that the dealer has enough assets or funds before making a claim. The value of the car also depends on whether it is a small claims case if it is less than £10k then you can bring it within small claims.

Is the vehicle brand new or used and if so how old is it?

[Juliaforster]

Re: Faulty car

We think he's independent and can not find anything to say he is a limited company. It is a second hand car and we paid £5000 for it and it is a 59 plate

[R0b]

Re: Faulty car

Well, you say its a Citreon dealership so it may be a franchise, are you able to name the dealer and we can have a look and see whether or not the trader is in fact a limited company or not. A few further questions:

1. I also see that your husband signed a statement, could you tell us what the statement says as that could potentially impact or provide a defence by the dealer.

2. How did you go about purchasing the vehicle, was it in person or did you see it advertised online?

3. Did you ask any specific questions about the car in terms of its condition or did the dealer give any representations about the condition e.g. the vehicle is mechanically sound or has no issues with it etc.

[des8]

Re: Faulty car

Did the faults with the car render it unroadworthy, especially regarding lights, brakes or steering?

The fact your husband signed a satisfaction form is of little import (I assume your OH is not a qualified motor engineer!)

How did you pay for the vehicle : credit card/finance house/cash?

[Juliaforster]

Re: Faulty car

No I took the car to a citreon dealer to be repaired. The company who we purchased the car from is Premier Car Sales based in Birmingham. Address 9 Chetwynd Road, Ward End, B8 2LB. It was advertised on auto trader. The statement my husband signed says as follows: purchaser declaration section. I certify that, to the best of my knowledge, this vehicle is mechanically sound, has no major defects and is of road worthy condition. I have inspected the vehicle thoroughly and have carried out all necessary checks that are required before purchasing a used vehicle. I am satisfied with its current condition and I am aware that there is a 3 months warranty provided. (Warrentywise platinum cover - £5000 limit. This is signed by the seller also. We viewed the vehicle in person after seeing the car advertised on auto trader. We paid so much in cash and the rest on debit card on the day we viewed the car. We also drove the car away the same day. The seller told us it was mechanically sound and that it was a good runner. We have not driven the car since it was in the garage due to how the car is.

[des8]

Re: Faulty car

So the address given seems to be a private house on a residential street.

Have you checked with Warrantywise that your warranty is registered with them?
I recall other cases where warranties turned out to be non existence.

To be frank, this seems to be a one man Arfur Daley outfit, who tries to wriggle out of his legal duties by having purchasers sign invalid waivers.
Your claim will be against XXXXX XXXXX t/a Premier Car Sales of 9..............

Your claim should be the cost of the vehicle, the cost of Citreon examination, loss of use at £10 per day plus interest.
Trader is responsible for collecting vehicle at his cost.
Do not use the vehicle.

I'd start getting the claim together right now!
No messing

[Juliaforster]

Re: Faulty car

Yes it is a private house and definitely an Arthur Daley outfit. How do I go about getting the claim together and am I right in thinking the waiver has no grounds? I really appreciate all the advice I have got on here. People like this guy shouldn't get away with what they do.

[Juliaforster]

Re: Faulty car

Warranty wise have contacted us to extend the warranty so it definitely exists. The citreon dealer I took the car to felt that bad for us, he didn't charge us for the examination nor the fuel or use of the courtesy car.

[R0b]

Re: Faulty car

Well, I'm going to play devil's advocate here and disagree with @des8 on the statement he signed.

Back in the day before October 1 2015, the Sale of Goods Act was the applicable law. Where a business is trading with a consumer, as pointed out, businesses cannot contract out, limit or ask consumers to waive their rights in respect of fitness for purpose, satisfactory quality etc.

When a consumer has purchased the goods, they would have lost the right to reject the goods if they have been "accepted", usually when buyer has had a reasonable time to examine the goods. What amounts to a reasonable time is questionable but it could be as little as a couple of weeks or longer. The Consumer Rights Act is mirrored on a lot of the Sale of Goods Act with a few additions but the satisfactory quality and fitness for purpose remains the same.

Now arguably, your husband has not signed a waiver as the declaration does not state that that he explicitly waives his rights as that would be illegal. The dealer has cleverly attempted to get around this by having your husband acknowledge and sign that he is satisfied with the vehicle and therefore could argue that he has "accepted" the vehicle after taking it for a test drive and inspecting it before purchasing it and driving it away. You could also say as Des8 has stated, that it is in fact carefully drafted waiver restricting your husbands rights. That of course would be for a judge to decide whether or not it is a waiver or whether your husband has "accepted" the vehicle upon test driving and inspecting it personally. If this was done long distance, then the dealer would have no chance on relying on this.

However that all being said, you have indicated that the dealer said the vehicle was mechanically sound and a good runner. Under the new Consumer Rights Act any pre-contractual statements made by the seller which is relied on by the consumer is to be deemed as forming part of the terms and conditions.

So you could also argue that the trader is in breach of contract as the vehicle is not mechanically sound and bring a claim for that reason. Just to make clear, if you did not notify the dealer that you wished to reject the goods within 30 days then you would have lost that right to an automatic refund but you could still claim breach of contract.

[Juliaforster]

Re: Faulty car

I understand your thoughts regarding the waiver and I believe it is worded very carefully but our argument with the waiver would be that the car ran ok at the time of test driving it but after the car had been sat a day this is when the problem started. The car is horrendous until it changes into 4th then it seems ok but once sat for any length of time it's the same. The car is a automatic. We purchased the car on 30th Jan and the case was registered with citizens advice on the 19th of Feb so well within the 30 day period.

[des8]

Re: Faulty car

Disagree R0b (as you would expect!)

You can't give up or sign away your consumer rights, even if you wanted to, and I believe it is a criminal offence for the dealer to try and get a consumer to do so.
Signing a satisfaction note will not impinge on your right to reject the vehicle within thirty days, which I believe is what you did.