Credit Card Purchase of Suspected Counterfeit Goods

[Snoopy1948]

Just bought a pair of Ugg boots for my wife on what looked exactly like a kosher UggAustralia.co.uk site, using my HSBC Visa Credit Card.

ON calling Ugg customer service by phone, it soon became apparent that the seller was not an authorised retailer and most likely a China company selling cheap counterfeit copies.

My credit card is yet to be debited but HSBC state that an 'authorised' debit of £64.13 is on their system. I assume that equates to the screen price of £60.66 plus foreign currency costs. HSBC state that they can only consider a refund of the money under the 'chargeback scheme' once the money has been debited and as the cost is under £100.

My question is :

(1) Do I have to prove to HSBC that I took adequate care with this on line transaction and believed ( as I did ) that I was buying from an authorised retailer? I am concerned that they may comment that a £195 pair of boots for £60 is simply too good to be true ( which of course it is ).

(2) What is the position if a refund is made as above and a pair of cheap counterfeit boots actually turn up? Am I obliged to return to China at cost assuming that they communicate an address to me? Or can I simply refuse to accept the delivery from the courier, assuming that something will actually be sent?

I have emailed the company for comment but I am not holding my breath.

All advice appreciated, as always .... thanks in advance !

[ostell]

Re: Credit Card Purchase of Suspected Counterfeit Goods

I believe that if it is a counterfeit then you have no requirement to return them to propagate the fraud, indeed you may pass them to the police as evidence.

[nemesis45]

Re: Credit Card Purchase of Suspected Counterfeit Goods

Just bought a pair of Ugg boots for my wife on what looked exactly like a kosher UggAustralia.co.uk site, using my HSBC Visa Credit Card.

ON calling Ugg customer service by phone, it soon became apparent that the seller was not an authorised retailer and most likely a China company selling cheap counterfeit copies.

My credit card is yet to be debited but HSBC state that an 'authorised' debit of £64.13 is on their system. I assume that equates to the screen price of £60.66 plus foreign currency costs. HSBC state that they can only consider a refund of the money under the 'chargeback scheme' once the money has been debited and as the cost is under £100.

My question is :

(1) Do I have to prove to HSBC that I took adequate care with this on line transaction and believed ( as I did ) that I was buying from an authorised retailer? I am concerned that they may comment that a £195 pair of boots for £60 is simply too good to be true ( which of course it is ).

(2) What is the position if a refund is made as above and a pair of cheap counterfeit boots actually turn up? Am I obliged to return to China at cost assuming that they communicate an address to me? Or can I simply refuse to accept the delivery from the courier, assuming that something will actually be sent?

I have emailed the company for comment but I am not holding my breath.

All advice appreciated, as always .... thanks in advance !

Hello Snoopy,

I know of 1 person who has used this UGG Australia site and 3 months on nothing has been delivered, bank has just agreed to refund payment.

nem

[Snoopy1948]

Re: Credit Card Purchase of Suspected Counterfeit Goods

Thank you guys for the 2 responses to date.

The website from which I ordered was : http://pop.vip.ukvipboots.com .... apparently, and according to my email communications with UggAustralia.co.uk, this company stems from the USA but is almost certainly based in China.

The payment has hit my credit card today and I have phoned HSBC to pursue the matter. They advised that I must wait a full 15 days after the payment is authorised and phone them back to confirm whether the product has been received or not. That means I now wait until the 24th November. I have also today received an email from the 'counterfeit company' stating that my boots have been despatched and provided a tracking number although that is of no use as they state no carrier. They also state that "their products come from factories and are of good quality, and would I please wait to see if they fit or not and if I am not satisfied, I should contact them". If I do actually receive a product, then I cannot begin to imagine that I have any obligation to do anything with them that is going to cost me time and expense as the whole sale was based on fraudulent information. Funny enough, UggAustralia.co.uk seem very aware of this but still failed to caution me when I rang them to state I was having trouble making an online order!

[Dazbrad]

Re: Credit Card Purchase of Suspected Counterfeit Goods

1) The Chargeback scheme is an example of equal liability. The card company is equally and severably liable for any purchase made using their payment service. This is because they have muscled their way between yourself and the retailer. Chargeback is used when the goods bought total less than £100, s75 of the Consumer Credit Act is exercised if goods cost more than £100.

As for whether you are responsible... you are no more responsible than the creditcard company who share liability. After all they were the ones that facilitated the payment.

If the goods do arrive and are counterfeit, the trader will have to defend this claim. I suggest writing to the manufacurer, attaching photos and getting them to give clues and writing their opinion back. Send this and the advert stating they are real Uggs to the creditcard company. This will support your claim.

If the goods dont arrive, and the deadline for delivery expires. Send this info to the creditcard company stating that the trader is in Breach of Contract. However because you state the website is chinese, it may be outside of the UKs jurisdiction. Inwhich case the creditcard company will have to consider the TCs and foriegn law that may apply - if the goods are not delivered then the creditcard company cant prove the goods are counterfeit.

2) If the goods are advertised as genuine, and they are not. You will not have to pay costs to return the goods. Email the trader and get them to collect the goods at their expense. In most cases, this will not be economically viable for the trader who will end up leaving them.

Speak to the creditcard company, they can also assist in what to do with the goods next

[MIKE770]

Re: Credit Card Purchase of Suspected Counterfeit Goods

Hello Snoopy,

I know of 1 person who has used this UGG Australia site and 3 months on nothing has been delivered, bank has just agreed to refund payment.

nem

I am sure this type problem with the Ugg issue has been around for a few years now, alarm bells ring? hope sorted soon!

[Snoopy1948]

Re: Credit Card Purchase of Suspected Counterfeit Goods

Thank you Dazbrad. The boots have yet to arrive as we speak! When I spoke to the correct department at HSBC Credit Cards regarding the potential purchase of counterfeit goods, it seemed to be a bit of an interrogation as to how I knew the product would be counterfeit. AS this came across as a rather stern discussion on their part, it felt like I should have perhaps been a tad more vigilant in my purchase. But from what you say, that shouldn't be the case. Having said that, I have never bought a bogus product in my life. Interestingly if you simply Google 'Counterfeit Ugg Boots China', you will see an amazing history of current experience. And yet more interesting is the fact that Ugg Boots have been made in China for the past three years and that smacks of cheap production while maintaining their usual trademark high prices. I will post on here again when and if the boots turn up, if they can indeed be identified as counterfeit and what happens thereafter! Another learning curve!

[Snoopy1948]

Re: Credit Card Purchase of Suspected Counterfeit Goods

Just to update this thread, the boots arrived some 8/9 days after order, clearly counterfeit copies and everything sent from China. To illustrate to HSBC that I have made every effort to resolve the issue direct with the seller, I have now had several emails back and fore resulting in an offer of a 60% refund and I keep the boots. This I have rejected as they are unsuitable, both in fit and comfort, not to mention a counterfeit copy of what I had ordered. I have sent my claim paperwork to HSBC so now wait on that to be processed, I have provided the bank with copies of all evidence to illustrate that I believed I was buying the genuine article and my negotiations to put the matter right. So its now a case of waiting for HSBC to respond pending me making minimum payments on the card debit in line with my obligations!