Substandard windows

[Foxyflugel]

Hi all

In Feb 2012 we had new UPVC windows fitted. The first day on the job I had to complain to the works manager as the workmen took all upstairs windows out and split a door jamb due to the door slamming shut in the draught - I was also unhappy with the way in which they had fitted the windows - sealant everywhere!!

He came to our property and said the work was not acceptable and he would send a different pair of fitters. He did this and they repaired the cosmetic mess of the upstairs windows and fitted the remaining windows. They all have strips around them also - instead of the window fitting brick to brick of the opening.

After they were all fitted they were okay for - I would say 6 months - then the lounge window board bowed upwards. I called them and they sent someone who simply replaced the window board - I expressed concerns as to why this had happened and I believe they just fobbed me off.

Since then we have had them out to each window at least once and to 4 (out of the 7) more than twice/three times each. They have replaced the hinges on 2 of the windows and adjusted them all several times - they catch when attempting to open them.

I approached the company with my concerns as surely this is not meant to happen if they are fit for purpose? When we moved into this property the previous owners had Yorkshire Windows fitted and around 6 months after we moved in the 10 year warranty was up - we had these windows for another 11 years - so they lasted 21 years and we only changed them as some of the seals were getting slightly worn and the white was off-white with age.

This company do not want to know - they would be happy to continue sending staff out to adjust the windows constantly - they are not particularly quick either - on average 3 weeks after calling them you get an appointment. This means never-ending appointments and time off work as they do not give a specific time slot - if you alter the appointment date then you have to wait another 1 or 2 weeks.

Where do we stand on this? The same 4 windows are draughty and catching again and with the cold weather coming up it really makes a significant difference to the warmth of the house.

What do we do?

Thanks in advance

Foxy

[des8]

Re: Substandard windows

Hi
First collect your evidence eg record of contract, details of call outs to put things right, photos, even perhaps a written report from another glazing firm etc.

Then I suspect your next port of call would be any trade association the installers may belong to.

If this approach fails to bring satisfaction I suppose it will be legal action under Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982,
Goods have to be fit for purpose, (which includes durability) and installed with reasonable care and skill.

There's more detailed advice on the Which site< http://www.which.co.uk/home-and-garden/home-improvements/guides/how-to-buy-double-glazing/your-rights-when-buying-double-glazing/

[Foxyflugel]

Re: Substandard windows

Hi Des8 and thanks for your reply.

I have - up to now - found 3 letters but I will find more - confirming their attendance to address the window issues.

On the letters there are plenty of signs and logos for various associations - we have Chamber of Commerce, certass, FMB, Trust Mark, Consumer Protection Association, EBC - European Builders Confederation. Sadly, none of which are any regulatory bodies so far as the consumer is concerned. The CPA apparently is for insurance if the firm goes under etc, however, it would seem that they failed to give us the relevant paperwork to register with this body.

I have requested a copy of the cheque - I know - DUUURRR me, I should have paid a bit on my credit card.

They have also fitted trims on the inside of the windows - like little boxes at the edge of the window and I have just read that this is to mask the gap!! I wouldn't mind so much but all the silicone is going black in various places and I cannot get it clean - even with neat bleach and a toothbrush. :tinysmile_cry_t:

Foxy

[jr9355]

Re: Substandard windows

Firstly, I think your post is in the wrong section. This doesn't seem to pertain to housing,property and neighbours and as such may receive less responses than it should do. As Des8 has stated, it's more commercial/contract law with regards to the Supply of Goods and Services Act.

The Act sets out what you can expect from the work and that it should be of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose, as described and last a reasonable amount of time.

Your bank can confirm payments issued by cheque, so you could request this from them.

Make sure that you take the complaint to the highest level possible within the company you are in dispute with. Should the matter ever end up in court, judges take a dim view of people who rush to court action without exhausting the complaints procedures of the vendor.

(5)

In that case there is (subject to subsection (6) below) an implied condition that the goods supplied under the contract are reasonably fit for that purpose, whether or not that is a purpose for which such goods are commonly supplied.

[des8]

Re: Substandard windows

Check out with the various associations if these people are actually members.
If not you may be able to sue them under the Misrepresentation Act 1967

[Foxyflugel]

Re: Substandard windows

Thanks for your replies.

I have requested a copy of the cheque from the building society. I sent them a letter of complaint and never heard anything at all..not even an acknowledgement! I stated that I was extremely unhappy with the windows due to 1... the black silicone (which I have mentioned each time they attend and they say it's normal as it is warm in the house and cold outside - I need to open a window!!??? - winter - heating on - open a window??!!) 2.....the draughts due to ill fitting windows and 3....the fact that several adjustments have been carried out to several windows which clearly is not a solution but a 'fix' as it's not long before the problem re-ocurrs. I have heard them discuss 'packing'? and lifting the windows.

I am aware now that I have to send them a letter detailing the problems what I want doing by when. However, I feel that I have given them plenty of opportunities to resolve this as constantly repairing the windows obviously isn't the answer - would a court (if it progresses that far) expect me to continue to do this?? as this seems unreasonable surely? If new windows are needed do we have to give this company the opportunity to do them?

Thanks for all your invaluable experience and input.

Foxy :tinysmile_hmm_t2:

[meellis]

Re: Substandard windows

As far as I am aware they have the right to offer a repair and you have the right to refuse. Because you have had them out a few times you have certainly let them try to remedy the problems so they have been able to exercise their rights to an unsatisfactory conclusion. If it goes to court then I believe it would look favourably on you. Were the company registered with FENSA who were the body overseeing window fitting, I am unsure how much clout they have but they might be able to point you to a professional to assess the problems. From the way you describe it the blackening of the silicon is probably mildew which happens in poorly ventilated houses when warm moist air meets cold air. This is probably due to there being insufficient insulation between the back of the silicon and outside air.

[wales01man]

Re: Substandard windows

Contact FENSA this company must have been registered with them

[des8]

Re: Substandard windows

As suggested by Meellis, due to the poor response by the company you have now lost all faith in them and no longer would allow them to even try to correct the problems.
This is considered a reasonable response to a company continually performing poorly.

[Foxyflugel]

Re: Substandard windows

Contact FENSA this company must have been registered with them

Unfortunately, apparently their registration was cancelled in early 2000 - but this was the previous company name that they still state on their letterheads as part of xxxxxxxx.

[Foxyflugel]

Re: Substandard windows

Contact FENSA this company must have been registered with them

Unfortunately, apparently their registration was cancelled in early 2000 - but this was the previous company name that they still state on their letterheads as part of xxxxxxxx.

[wales01man]

Re: Substandard windows

So this Company who fitted the windows was not FENSA registered at the time?

On the invoice does it state they were

[des8]

Re: Substandard windows

Replacement windows have to comply with building regulations.
To prove compliance you need either a certificate showing the work was done by a FENSA, or similar association member OR a certificate from local authority building control stating installation has been approved under the building regulations.
Hence the suggestion in post 5

[Foxyflugel]

Re: Substandard windows

Hi and thanks for your replies.

I am going to look out all the paperwork when I have a minute. I believe I do recall receiving some kind of certificate-type documentation after the installation but, until I find it, could not guess what it was.

I will look for it asap and then post further.

Thanks

Foxy

[Foxyflugel]

Re: Substandard windows

Hi all

I have attached the contract and guarantee. They were not FENSA registered and I found our CERTASS certificate and also a Consumer Protection Association document - I have the customer copy (CPA) - apparently the coloured copy that is to be sent off I have never had - and when I called CPA they didn't have it registered either!! So they obviously kept it !!

I have managed to find 3 letters re - appointments but I am unable to locate any more - as they did not always send a letter. I need to contact Sky and obtain my phone records for 2012-2014 as they are not online - I have managed to find 3 phone calls to them for their visits before xmas last year. I am on it for the report and hopefully will get this sorted soon.

Any more advice anyone??

Thanks as always

Foxy :tinysmile_twink_t2: