consumer rights and private seller

[teaboy2]

Re: consumer rights and private seller

Also report her to trading standards as well.

As for getting your money back, now you know her real name and address you can send her a formal letter before action containing copies of her advert, and the VET letter. Telling her that she has 14 days in which yo refund you the full amount, advising them that not only are they in breach of the sales of goods act for misrepresenting the age of the Dog, they are also in breach of the Fraud Act 2006 for misrepresentation in order to make a financial gain at the expense of others, as proven by her request that you give back the dog, that has clearly been used for breeding and has likely been abused, in order to sell it to another innocent party using the same misrepresentation of its age to con them out of money too, just so they could refund yourself! Make clear if they do not refund you within the given 14 days you will take court action against them. Inform them you are under no obligation to return the animal to them as you have legal obligations to the animals welfare under the Animal Welfare act 2006 namely section 4.

Basically if you returned the dog to them knowing that its likely to be abused or mistreated, that amounts to a failure to act on your part and if the dog were to be mistreated as a result of your failure to act, you would be committing an offense. Your failure to act here, would be your act of returning the dog knowing it would likely be abused. Therefore you can use the act to defend your reasoning for not returning the dog, as per normally required under sales of goods act for you to get a refund, therefore in any claim you make, despite your not returning the animal a court will agree that your actions for the welfare of the animal were legitimate and in line with the animal welfare act 2006. Which would make any requirement under the sale of goods act for you to return goods invalid, along with any counter argument that you did not return the dog - As any such counter argument would basically be saying you needed to commit a criminal offense (breach of the animal welfare act 2006) to be entitled to a refund. No judge in the land will tolerate such counter argument!

[natant24]

Re: consumer rights and private seller

Wow thank you for that teaboy2!! I had no idea what my rights would be if we did re-home her, if that is even possible. I naturally just assumed we had to return her, but I am glad that we don't have to, I dont think I could forgive myself if we did. Im sorry for the late reply as I have had no internet the last few days.
I will be doing everything I can to try and stop these two. conning others and mistreating animals. They have since been in touch and said we can have the money back by wednesday but I am not holding my breath.
As for the pooch, we still have her in our house but the poor thing is a nervous wreck, if she sees any of us she starts shaking and panting quite heavily, I'm terrified she is going to give herself a heart attack. It makes me want to cry every day seeing her in such a state, I just wish I could make these people feel the same as her and see how they like it!

[Kati]

Re: consumer rights and private seller

A bit of advice on the nervous dog (if you've got time of course) ...

She's probably scared stiff that she is going to be beaten or something . Try not to look her in the eyes for a few days ... 'ignore' her. Keep all your actions/reactions when in her presence as deliberate (maybe even exaggerate them a little) so she can see exactly what you are doing/going to do. If she sees that you are not a threat, then she will start to feel a little more settled.

Does she eat when any of you are in the room? Do you think she would eat from your hand?
one 'trick' we had to do last year (we had a very scared dog who had been so badly beaten we didn't think would survive) was to sit on the floor in a room with no distractions (even going so far as to shut the door so we weren't disturbed) holding a packet/tin of something 'tasty'. Talking in a low/non-threatening voice at all times, we'd open the pack and throw a piece towards the dog (not looking at her tho) if/when she ate it, we'd do it again - but a bit closer to ourselves. And repeat.
This took time (we only did it for about 1/2hr twice a day) but the dog is now a lot better.

K x

[natant24]

Re: consumer rights and private seller

She doesn't eat or drink any water when we are in the same room as her. If we walk in and she is eating, she immediately stops eating and runs to her bed and starts shaking. We have tried giving her little treats from our hands but she wont take them. She will only take them if they are on the floor or in her bowl. She will only eat if no one is around her and she is left alone. I will try some of those tricks though thanks Kati.

[Kati]

Re: consumer rights and private seller

She doesn't eat or drink any water when we are in the same room as her. If we walk in and she is eating, she immediately stops eating and runs to her bed and starts shaking.

Have you a spare dog cage you can use? She might feel secure if you put her food and water in a 'safe' place for now ... somewhere she knows that you can't get to her without her knowing.

We have tried giving her little treats from our hands but she wont take them. She will only take them if they are on the floor or in her bowl. She will only eat if no one is around her and she is left alone. I will try some of those tricks though thanks Kati.

Sometimes dogs are scared to get close to a person even for a treat if you want her to come closer, sit in the least threatening position you can think of (we usually get down on the floor, legs crossed, head slightly down with our hands palm up on our knees). Direct eye contact can be seen as a threat keep your eyes averted as much as possible. No sudden movements or loud noises/shouting!

[Kati]

Re: consumer rights and private seller

I got one of these for my dog (http://www.thundershirt.com)

[enaid]

Re: consumer rights and private seller

She has never been socialised at all, probably never had a jot of human contact, a nice stroke or a cuddle would be completely alien and terrifying for her. She may never have been beaten but it's the unknown that scares her and love is definitely something she has ever known. She was most likely just kept in solitude apart from when the dog visited to sire her puppies. Then just left, fed and watered with no proper contact until the puppies were old enough to be taken away (or not in some cases.
Heartbreaking for animal lovers but big business for the breeders of the so called 'designer dogs' that are so popular these days.

[natant24]

Re: consumer rights and private seller

Hi all, just thought I would give you a quick update with what has happened so far.

I still have not heard anything from the seller after my letter before action. Dont think I will to be honest.

As for Polly, she has been re-homed with a lovely lady who lives alone with one other small dog next to a park where she will get all the love and attention and quiet time she needs. I felt awful but I know that she is in a much better suited home than ours. My children were too boisterous for her. She has been treated by the vet and had to have 15 of her teeth removed because of their condition. She only has 3 left now.

I reported the seller and her boyfriend to the RSPCA, and apparently the farm that I got Polly from are well known to them and have been subject to investigation before. There has been numerous reports about this farm over the years, mainly for neglected dogs. The inspector that I spoke to said she is going up there again and could quite possibly be removing any dogs that remain up there. The same day that I made my report, they received a very similar report from another lady who also had a Pomeranian, they believe it to be Polly's sister, and she too is in the same neglected state as Polly. The officer said our reports were nearly identical. I am waiting for her to visit to take an official statement from me, as she thinks they will plead not guilty and will probably end up in court.

[Kati]

Re: consumer rights and private seller

did you send the letter as per [MENTION=19071]teaboy2[/MENTION]'s suggestion? If so, you have a chance to start a court claim against her ... I'm sure you will get lots of advice from the knowledgeable Beagles if you decide to go down that route :nod:

I'm so glad Polly has found a good home too!!

Keep us informed of any updates please xx

[natant24]

Re: consumer rights and private seller

I did use all the suggestions that are on this thread yes, they have until Monday to respond.

Thanks again for everybody's help and I will keep updating if and when anything happens. xx

[MissFM]

Re: consumer rights and private seller

Oh, well done Natant!

I hope the RSPCA prosecute these awful, awful people and put them completely out of business along with all the others like them.

I also hope that your children haven't been too upset by the experience - it sounds as if your family would provide a wonderful, responsible home to the right dog

[enaid]

Re: consumer rights and private seller

I am so pleased that action maybe taken against these people, rescue centres are full to bursting and many many dogs are put to sleep each week because people like these make easy money from breeding puppies.
Polly has a nice home too it seems now and hopefully she will stay there for the rest of her days.
The only down side is the money you lost when buying Polly and the vets bills, you have started the legal route to regain your costs, entirely up to you if you carry it through or not.
Personally I would for the simple reason these kind of people only feel pain when it hits their pockets.
Thanks for the update and well done
Enaid x

[teaboy2]

Re: consumer rights and private seller

I did use all the suggestions that are on this thread yes, they have until Monday to respond.

Thanks again for everybody's help and I will keep updating if and when anything happens. xx

Hi @natant24

Its great to hear the RSPCA are now involved and are seriously looking at pursuing criminal charges against these people. You may want to point out to the RSPCA inspector that they have also been committing fraud by selling the dogs using false representations (and failing to disclose information about the dogs i.e. used for breeding) as to the dogs age, health and condition, along with the animals history in order to make a financial gain from those willing to purchase the dogs, only to later to discover the information the seller gave was completely false - Which is a breach of section 2 (false representation) and section 3 (failure to disclose information) of the Fraud Act 2006. The police will no doubt be brought in by the RSPCA so if you advise the Inspector of the sellers breaches of the fraud act he/she can pass this on to the police for them to investigate and press charges, meaning not only will the seller face prosecution for breaches of the animal welfare act but also for breaches of the fraud act, therefore likely resulting in a prison sentence as well as a fine, court costs and life time ban on keeping animals.

Regarding your own claim, well its best you get a statement from both the RSPCA inspector reference what he/she told you, from the person that you re-homed polly with and any charity that aided the re-homing, and also from the VET that treated polly describing her condition and treatment that she required (this to go with copies of your VET bills - as you can claim for them too). The statements will strengthen your case against the seller and also allow you to reclaim the money you paid on Vet Bills too, for which the seller would be liable for as a result of his false representations which amounts to a breach of sales of goods contract! And when a party breaches a contract and the other party incurs a financial cost as a result, then the offending party is liable to reimburse, in full, the party that lost money as a result of the offending parties breach of contract.

Basically start preparing your claim now, by getting those statements, as no point waiting for these evil bastards to reply, as i suspect they won't!