The Automobile Association and Newark Self-Drive Hire and Auto Centre, Notts

[justiceisararecommodity]

My car broke down on 14/01/15 in Newark, Notts, 140 miles from home. AA recommended and towed me to local garage, Newark Self Drive Hire and Auto Centre. I hired a car for a week, and they agreed to diagnose my car and get back to me. Following day garage called to say "gearbox had collapsed" and therefore required replacement gearbox. They also recommended replacement clutch kit as is standard practice. Agreed to fit secondhand gearbox and clutch kit, with one-month warranty as advised by Newark Auto Centre proprietor, Mr Daniel Fletcher.
On 21/01/15 I paid Linda at Newark Auto Centre £517.20 for car repair. Bill stated gearbox only fitted, no clutch kit as agreed. En route to A1(M) gears stiff. Put this down to different gear box being fitted. Just 75 minutes after collecting my car from garage, having covered only 50 miles, gear level jumped out of gear as I overtook and rev counter shot up - incongruous with speed and acceleration. Then an almighty ban in the engine. Smoke billowed out of the engine, and I couldn't see for a split second. Lost power. Car tailgating me almost crashed into rear of me, missing by a fraction. Cars were sounding their horns like crazy. Break down almost resulted in a collision, potentially very serious, even fatal. I limped onto hard shoulder. Thankfully SOS telephone poll present, as I had absolutely no idea where I was. I called the AA. They sent a local garage recovery service who were excellent. My front driver's wheel was covered in oil, which was strewn across the hard shoulder.

I was really stung to be towed home by the AA as I only had local cover - they hit me with a £228.35 charge; including 45p per mile over 50 miles. I was 90 miles from. I was forced to take out their Relay cover, with an emergency fee slapped on too. It was a case of Hobson's choice, which the AA took full advantage of.

The local garage that recovered me carried out an inspection of the engine. They discovered that the conrod piston had smashed through the engine block, resulting in a large hole. I was asked if I'd had any recent repair done. I explained that Newark Auto Centre had just replaced the gearbox. I was informed this was the most likely cause of the breakdown, and that as a result the engine was destroyed and required replacement. Having paid Newark Auto Centre £517.20 my car was a write-off.

The following day, 22/01/15, I spoke to Newark Auto Centre's proprietor, Daniel Fletcher. He denied all liability and did not want to know or help me. He pretended that the breakdown service who recovered me were not qualified mechanics, which they most certainly are. He denied that we had agreed his mechanics would fit a replacement clutch kit, as he personally recommended. He denied that he had said that the parts came with a one-month warranty. He refused to send his break down service to recover my car and have it inspected. He refused to refund my repair bill of £517.20. He said he would arrange for RAC to inspect my car to ascertain the cause of the breakdown, and that they would contact me. He also, completely unreasonably, insisted that I be at home during the working week for an RAC inspection.

I then contacted AA's Executive Chairman, Bob McKenzie by email, requesting assistance as the AA patrolman, Matthew, had recommended Newark Auto Centre. Eventually, Ms Julia Docker from AA's Special Investigations, emailed me. She said that AA denied any responsibility and refused to help me, even though their patrolman had recommended this garage, which had led to a botched repair and potentially defective parts which has written my car off. She confirmed that Newark Auto Centre is not AA-approved. She also stated that AA refused to follow my instruction to cancel my Recovery policy and refund my money. My wife also has a warranty with AA. The AA have completely abandoned me to a garage, which has destroyed my vehicle. The AA have also claimed that they are above reproach, claiming not to be subject to the FOS. The AA have failed to abide by their terms and conditions to ensure all repairs carried out by garages they recommend are safe and satisfactory. This botched repair could have killed me and other road users. The AA simply don't care. They've ripped me off and abandoned me in my hour of need. I would seriously advise anyone considering breakdown cover to avoid AA like the plague.

I have also informed AA that their patrolman on 14/01/15 encouraged me to be dishonest and commit fraud, by leaving my vehicle in Newark, and taking a fresh policy with AA or another breakdown provider 2 days after the breakdown, returning a week later, and then pretending the car had just broken down. I refused to indulge in this fraud. I have reported this to Ms Julia Docker of AA, although have had no response to date.

I have reported the AA to the FOS and FCA and am awaiting responses.

I have also reported Newark Auto Centre to Nottinghamshire C C Trading Standards. They are useless; they don't want to know. I am awaiting a response from Essex C C Trading Standards.

Both Motor Codes and RMI have confirmed that Newark Auto Centre are not a membgr of their organisations. Motor Codes stated that they were unable to make contact with Newark Auto Centre, and suggested legal action (as did CAB).

My insurer have been unable to assist as I am covered only for RTA. their head of customer services described Newark Auto Centre as "rogue traders."

I have sent Mr Daniel Fletcher, proprietor of Newark Auto Centre a pre-conduct action letter, in a bid to negotiate a solution to the problem prior to court action. He has responded in writing, again, denying all liability, and again refusing to issue a written warranty, which is of course unlawful.

Apart from legal action against Newark Auto Centre, having tried all other avenues to resolve the problem without litigation, none have proved successful. This saga has demonstrated just how vulnerable customers are to unscrupulous garages like Newark Auto Centre. I'm waiting on the FOS and FCA to see what happens with AA. The AA have been every bit as appalling as Newark Auto Centre.

The chaos to my young family and I, being without a car, has been immense. Getting to work has been a total nightmare, as has been shopping.

I'd be grateful for any suggestions as to any other steps I can take prior to making a small claims court app.

[Tools]

Re: The Automobile Association and Newark Self-Drive Hire and Auto Centre, Notts

The first course of action you need to take is to get an independent, recognised vehicle inspector to establish the likely cause of the engine damage.

I am a mechanic myself and although you may have been told the fault may be due to the gearbox/clutch work carried out, this is somewhat tenuous. Unless there was an underlying issue with the engine, over revving for a comparably short period should not cause a conrod to fracture.

Can I ask what Make, Model Year the vehicle is and approximate mileage before going any further.

[sean5302]

Re: The Automobile Association and Newark Self-Drive Hire and Auto Centre, Notts

Sorry to read of your plight.
I'm a chartered engineer, employing just over 500 people working in the automotive industry.
Let's have an analytical look at this.
1. I don't know what make, model, age or mileage your vehicle is. Please let us know.
2. How long since you bought it?
2a How long have you owned it and is there service history or warranty?
3. It's not standard practice to replace a clutch when a gearbox repair is done. Much better to look at the clutch assembly and decide whether to replace it then. It could have been replaced recently.
4. This is the nub of the issue and may be hard to prove one way or another. The reason a con-rod comes through the block is normally low oil level, but could be over-revving. Given that something failed and you were still pressing the accelerator, this is the likeliest cause. I wonder what failed to cause immediate loss of drive. The answer could be a gearbox failure.
Other failures such as oil on the clutch plate, failed driveshaft or a bolt coming loose would usually be progressive. You wouldn't just instantly lose drive. An independent motor engineer would look and give an opinion on that.
I'm thinking the garage may not have tightened the oil sump drain plug, but why would they drain the oil?
Did they charge you for an oil change?
5. The AA seem to have given you a raw deal. I know they can be terrible or wonderful, depending on who you get at the roadside. My daughter had her first car parked at the roadside and some football hooligans decided to smash the side windows of every car in the street. She phoned me, in tears and I told her to phone AA Autoglass and phone again when the man came. She rang back and said they wanted £350 to change the glass. I asked her if he was wearing a mask,. "What do you mean, Dad?" I explained and never used the AA again. The glass cost me £15 and was a 10 minute job to fix, so I know exactly what you mean in your report.
Please give us some more info and we'll come back to help you.
There are some very good people here.

[justiceisararecommodity]

Re: The Automobile Association and Newark Self-Drive Hire and Auto Centre, Notts

Thank you for your kind, understanding response.

1. I don't know what make, model, age or mileage your vehicle is. Please let us know.
A: Vauxhall Vectra C 1.8, 2004, 121k miles.
2. How long since you bought it?
A: Purchased in 05/2007.
2a How long have you owned it and is there service history or warranty?
A: Owned since 05/2007. Service history and AA warranty.
3. It's not standard practice to replace a clutch when a gearbox repair is done. Much better to look at the clutch assembly and decide whether to replace it then. It could have been replaced recently.
4. This is the nub of the issue and may be hard to prove one way or another. The reason a con-rod comes through the block is normally low oil level, but could be over-revving. Given that something failed and you were still pressing the accelerator, this is the likeliest cause. I wonder what failed to cause immediate loss of drive. The answer could be a gearbox failure.
A: Gearbox failure is what recovery patrolman said at time, as he asked me if I'd had a recent repair done.
Other failures such as oil on the clutch plate, failed driveshaft or a bolt coming loose would usually be progressive. You wouldn't just instantly lose drive. An independent motor engineer would look and give an opinion on that.
I'm thinking the garage may not have tightened the oil sump drain plug, but why would they drain the oil? This is exactly what patrolman on 21/01/15 said to me. He also said second hand parts fitted may have been faulty.
5. The AA seem to have given you a raw deal. I know they can be terrible or wonderful, depending on who you get at the roadside. My daughter had her first car parked at the roadside and some football hooligans decided to smash the side windows of every car in the street. She phoned me, in tears and I told her to phone AA Autoglass and phone again when the man came. She rang back and said they wanted £350 to change the glass. I asked her if he was wearing a mask,. "What do you mean, Dad?" I explained and never used the AA again. The glass cost me £15 and was a 10 minute job to fix, so I know exactly what you mean in your report.
A: Agreed, AA are awful. A few years ago they left my heavily pregnant sister-in-law for 4 hours on a hard shoulder. I'll never renew with them ever again.
Please give us some more info and we'll come back to help you.
There are some very good people here.[/QUOTE]

It's an absolute nightmare. Car sat on my driveway leaking oil everywhere. Now my insurer, Hastings Direct, want to charge me a cancellation fee. It's cost me so much money and causing so much hassle. Hellish.

Let me know if you need any more info.

Many thanks, much appreciated.

[des8]

Re: The Automobile Association and Newark Self-Drive Hire and Auto Centre, Notts

Can't help with the breakdown, but re the insurance ask them to suspend it 'till you get a new car.
Then do a vehicle substitution.
Should work out cheaper

• [*=center]:tinysmile_twink_t2:
  

[sean5302]

Re: The Automobile Association and Newark Self-Drive Hire and Auto Centre, Notts

Hmm. Thanks for your quick response.
Des8 is spot-on with suspending your policy until you get another car. There should be no charge to do this.
The AA man seems to have been technically very competent. I cannot comment on his ethics, which you described in the original post.
Again, I'm going to be analytical and I'm afraid it's going to be a bit harsh. Sorry for that.

An 11-year old Vectra with 121k miles might be worth £250 if the bodywork is good.
Hindsight is a marvellous thing and you know your car well if you've had it since 2007.
The obvious thing to have done with the first gearbox failure would have been to scrap it then. You'd have got £150 scrap value.

What did you say about AA warranty? This could be your escape route. Exactly what is warranted?

If you're covered for major component failures, such as engine or gearbox, you could be laughing.

In terms of the reason for the failure, you can see that it will be very difficult to prove.
A piston or con-rod coming out through the block would produce oil and smoke, exactly as you describe. We want to know why that happened. You didn't say whether the garage charged you for an engine oil change.

Lastly, I don't know whether you've ever visited a scrapyard. I've spent all too much of my youth in such places, as an impoverished student trying to keep sheds and bangers on the road. You see engines and gearboxes pulled out of complete wrecks and sold to unsuspecting buyers. Usually for top money.

So, if I were you, I'd do the following:
1. Follow Des8's advice and suspend my policy (free)
2. Cut my losses. I don't think you'll prove anything against the garage, in my opinion. They weren't all bad, you know. If anyone had replaced my clutch and then showed me the old parts which I deemed OK, we'd be having a conversation they wouldn't like.
3. If you get an engineer's report, it will cost you about £200. If the report shows a missing sump plug from under the engine, you'd still have to prove the garage didn't tighten it properly. If it shows a fault with the "new" gearbox you might get some redress from the Newark garage. Depends on whether you want to go through the County Court, with all that entails, including the possibility of losing and paying the garage's attendance costs. (£250).

I'm sure anyone reading this feels a great deal of sympathy for you, for what it's worth.
This really is a very good forum and we'd all like to help you, but this saga is a bit like having someone die in the theatre. You never really know what the true reason was.

I do hope that wasn't too painful.

[justiceisararecommodity]

Re: The Automobile Association and Newark Self-Drive Hire and Auto Centre, Notts

Hmm. Thanks for your quick response.
Des8 is spot-on with suspending your policy until you get another car. There should be no charge to do this.
The AA man seems to have been technically very competent. I cannot comment on his ethics, which you described in the original post.
Again, I'm going to be analytical and I'm afraid it's going to be a bit harsh. Sorry for that.

An 11-year old Vectra with 121k miles might be worth £250 if the bodywork is good.
Hindsight is a marvellous thing and you know your car well if you've had it since 2007.
The obvious thing to have done with the first gearbox failure would have been to scrap it then. You'd have got £150 scrap value.

What did you say about AA warranty? This could be your escape route. Exactly what is warranted?

If you're covered for major component failures, such as engine or gearbox, you could be laughing.

In terms of the reason for the failure, you can see that it will be very difficult to prove.
A piston or con-rod coming out through the block would produce oil and smoke, exactly as you describe. We want to know why that happened. You didn't say whether the garage charged you for an engine oil change.

Lastly, I don't know whether you've ever visited a scrapyard. I've spent all too much of my youth in such places, as an impoverished student trying to keep sheds and bangers on the road. You see engines and gearboxes pulled out of complete wrecks and sold to unsuspecting buyers. Usually for top money.

So, if I were you, I'd do the following:
1. Follow Des8's advice and suspend my policy (free)
2. Cut my losses. I don't think you'll prove anything against the garage, in my opinion. They weren't all bad, you know. If anyone had replaced my clutch and then showed me the old parts which I deemed OK, we'd be having a conversation they wouldn't like.
3. If you get an engineer's report, it will cost you about £200. If the report shows a missing sump plug from under the engine, you'd still have to prove the garage didn't tighten it properly. If it shows a fault with the "new" gearbox you might get some redress from the Newark garage. Depends on whether you want to go through the County Court, with all that entails, including the possibility of losing and paying the garage's attendance costs. (£250).

I'm sure anyone reading this feels a great deal of sympathy for you, for what it's worth.
This really is a very good forum and we'd all like to help you, but this saga is a bit like having someone die in the theatre. You never really know what the true reason was.

I do hope that wasn't too painful.

Thank you for your postings.

Newark Auto Centre deceived me. They told me parts came with a one-month warranty, which they later denied. Failure to supply a written warranty for goods and service is of course unlawful.

I'm also concerned by the fact that Newark Auto Centre are not registered with Motor Codes or the RMI. Motor Codes informed me that they were unable to make contact with Newark Auto Centre.

My car was serviced by a Vauxhall dealership and passed its MOT in 2014. No underlying problem with the engine was identified. I do not believe that it is a coincidence that my car broke down and was written off following repair work by Newark Auto Centre. I agree with my insurer that Newark Auto Centre is a "rogue trader." In all the years I've been driving and with all the cars I've owned I've never known a garage act in such an unscrupulous, unethical, deceitful and unlawful manner.

Newark Auto Centre have left me with no option but to make recourse to the law. Justice will prevail - as the saying goes, whatever is hidden will be brought to light. Daniel Fletcher and Newark Auto Centre will be held to account. He thinks he's beyond reproach, and sorely underestimates me. Events shall prove otherwise. I will report back when I've won my case.

As for the AA, they're as crooked as the garage. I'll let the regulator deal with them.

[sean5302]

Re: The Automobile Association and Newark Self-Drive Hire and Auto Centre, Notts

There's a lot of truth in what you say. I don't know of a legal requirement to provide a written warranty for goods and services.

What I find despicable of the AA was that they didn't tell you the car was uneconomical to repair. Why make you pay for recovery to home? It would have been better to scrap it where it stopped. I think you'd have a valid claim against them over that part. They sold you a service that certainly wasn't in your best interests. I'd pursue that with them.

In terms of your engine, please let me explain my reasoning. It's a bit technical so I'll try and keep it simple.
Inside the gearbox there are lots of gears, bearings and springs along with 3 shafts.
The gearbox input shaft is supported in ball and roller bearings and is permanently driven by the engine once the clutch is released. It takes all the hammer from the engine and the gearwheels on it pass the drive to the layshaft. That is not under such wear.
Imagine you're driving along and a bearing fails on the mainshaft in the gearbox. It would stop dead but there's all the inertia of the engine, clutch and car trying to propel it forward. Something has to give and in your case, I reckon the engine crankshaft was the first to go.
That's the likeliest cause.

Where Newark seem a bit slack is they haven't given you the provenance of the replacement box, or a warranty in writing.

If you ring round a few scrapyards you might get the car collected and they should give you £150 or so for it.
Make sure you surrender your road tax for a refund (declare sorn) and remove anything from the car that you want to keep. We said before about suspending the insurance.

I'm really sorry for you. We all will be here. These things usually happen at the worst possible times.

[Tools]

Re: The Automobile Association and Newark Self-Drive Hire and Auto Centre, Notts

After reading Sean's description on how the engine could have been damaged I have to agree in theory.

However, unless the input shaft had somehow fixed itself to the spiggot bearing (and also the spiggot bearing had siezed) then the first thing to give would be the clutch before locking the crankshaft. In order for a sudden gearbox "dead halt" to have the same effect on the crankshaft there would need to be a constant drive between the two. The drive as Sean explains engages/disengages using the clutch, this would be the first to give in.

A full inspection involving removal of the gearbox would need to be done to establish this.

Also a small but important point, the condition of the engine is not inspected on an MOT, only in so much as fuel/oil leaks and emissions.

[sean5302]

Re: The Automobile Association and Newark Self-Drive Hire and Auto Centre, Notts

Also makes you wonder whether Newark forgot to put any oil in the "new" gearbox they'd fitted..
That might explain such a rapid failure.
Makes me want to get my overalls on and nip over to the OP's house.

Funny how your overalls shrink in the wardrobe, isn't it? Always around the midriff, too.

[Tools]

Re: The Automobile Association and Newark Self-Drive Hire and Auto Centre, Notts

I'm with you there.

A recon box does normally come without oil, and again normally has a visible tag saying so. Easily overlooked

With or without warranty, they have a duty under the sale of goods act to provide you with goods fit for purpose etc etc, try speaking with your( or Newark) Trading Standards