When they break your perfectly good working car....

[sepia]

Hi, wondering if someone could give me some sound advice…

A few weeks back, I needed to get a 2nd key programmed for my 2010 reg car… Initially I took my original working key along with the 2nd key (previously used on another car) that I wanted to be programed to the Main Dealer and asked if it was possible to do this work, showing them both keys and asking if this was okay…. Basically they copy my original key to the 2nd key overwriting it…. The reason I wanted a 2nd key was that the buttons on my working key were a bit “light” and you would sometimes find that when you put the key in your pocket the button would inadvertently get pushed unlocking the car…

They said to me, no problems, we can do the job and it will be £48…

I booked the car in…

On the day of the work, I took the car to their reception and explained the story about the “light” buttons and they said fine, no problems.., the job should take 30 mins…
After 15 mins the mechanic came out and said that there was a “blank blade” in my 2nd key…, and I explained that once the key had been re-programed I would simply swap the blades over… I asked him if this was a problem..?, he said “no it would be fine” and went off to do the job…

90 mins later they came out to tell me that the re-programming had gone wrong and that both keys were now useless and the car could not be driven…, and they could not look at it again till Monday..

I asked if they could give me a loan car as they had basically taken my car off the road.., they said no.., and said it was my fault this had happened..???
Their angle being that the 2nd key I had supplied was a “fake” as they put it… It was not a fake, and the serial numbers on the key tie up perfectly with the make and model of my car.., and if they felt there were any issues they should have told me before they undertook the work…

This job just tumbled into an even bigger mess with them eventually getting my car back on the road 6 days later!!..., so I had the cost of buying a replacement key to replace the one they trashed.., as well as a very hefty bill for a hire car… at one point we were staring down the barrel of a bill in excess of £800!!!

All the way throughout this I tried to work with them, there was no case of me going crazy or anything like that…, after all I needed my car back..
During the whole process I was in contact with Trading Standards and they advised me on exactly what needed to be written to them and fully supported me… They quoted Supply of Goods & Services Act 1982 (As amended), and said there would be no problems..

I’m now at a point where I have started the process thru the Small Claims Court and they have acknowledged the letter from the court and sent me quite a threatening letter telling me to withdraw my claim or they would counterclaim for the hours their mechanics spent trying to get the car working again!, they also said that my keys were “fake” and they had proof, which frankly would be amazing as my original key has been starting the car perfectly well for the last 6 months!..., very odd…, so they break my car.., then tell me that because of the work they have done they will not pay for any aspect of the cost to put it right again and if I raise a claim against them they will counter sue to claim back the time they spent trying to fix the problem they created..?
I’m after some advice really.., I’m like any small fish coming up against one of these big companies and you feel very threatened…, and not quite sure where it will lead to.., my claim against them is for a new key and the hire car all of which totals approx. £390…

How do you think I stand here…?, my understanding from Trading Standards was that they took the job on, and at no point said there would be any problems and that I had given them no less than 3 chances to back out.., once when I originally took the keys to see if the job was possible, once when I gave them to the receptionist on the day and then again when the mechanic was about to do the work..

Obviously, I have no idea about this type of work which is why I went to a Main Dealer and not a back street type operation…., I needed the professionals to tell me that the job was okay to do… If they had given me any warning signs I would not have done it…

Thanks in advance...

[des8]

Re: When they break your perfectly good working car....

Hi and Welcome
Seems to me that they are trying to frighten you into dropping your claim.
Have they ever tried invoicing you for the "extra" time spent trying to get your car working? Presumably not, because it was their fault.
I would let them put their counter claim in, and then see what proof they produce.
This will still be a small claim so, bearing in mind the costs they will have to bear if they employ a solicitor, they may well be prepared to come to a compromise when mediation is suggested.
I certainly wouldn't consider withdrawing at this stage.

It might be helpful if you could post up your claim, their defence if yet received and copy of their letter (all suitably redacted so no identification possible

[chaz301975]

Re: When they break your perfectly good working car....

as a volvo trained tec and a computor enginer i think i know where the problem came from. your keys are both fine and not fake it is just that the signal thay send out are too close to each others frequency it is like when you have to tvs and there remotes work some parts of each others sets but not all. so if only one remote progamed it will work fine but when both programed the computor gets confused on what signal goes with what remote. and locks both out as it sees it as some one trying to clone a key to steal a car it can also lock up the computor and require it to be replaced/reprogramed. although this is very very rare i have had it in the past. with car alarms and keys for building alarms aswell.

[sepia]

Re: When they break your perfectly good working car....

Hi, thanks for getting back to me...
No, I've never had anything from them..., no "other" bills, nothing...
It will be interesting to see what the proof is...., I know for 100% sure that both key, my original working one and the 2nd one are genuine manufacturers keys..., you would never be able to start the car as it has such a sophisticated alarm system....

[chaz301975]

Re: When they break your perfectly good working car....

as a volvo trained tec and a computor enginer i think i know where the problem came from. your keys are both fine and not fake it is just that the signal thay send out are too close to each others frequency it is like when you have to tvs and there remotes work some parts of each others sets but not all. so if only one remote progamed it will work fine but when both programed the computor gets confused on what signal goes with what remote. and locks both out as it sees it as some one trying to clone a key to steal a car it can also lock up the computor and require it to be replaced/reprogramed. although this is very very rare i have had it in the past. with car alarms and keys for building alarms aswell.

[sepia]

Re: When they break your perfectly good working car....

I'm amazed the manufacturers equipment let them do this... You would think that if as they claim the keys were "fake" it would have flagged up as soon as they attempted to do the work.. If you have a system that relies on the first key to be a working programmed key it would be a disaster if the manufacturers equipment allowed them to trash it...., you would have no way back if something went wrong...
Golden rule in any computing work, always have a backup!..

[des8]

Re: When they break your perfectly good working car....

Bearing in mind Chaz's comments I'd certainly continue with your court action.

[chaz301975]

Re: When they break your perfectly good working car....

there is no way the car has stopped the remotes from working it is just they have been locked out from that cars alarm as the remote is only a radio transmiter with a rotating frequency that is sinked to the cars computor and has no recever in the remote

[des8]

Re: When they break your perfectly good working car....

Have read your PM , thanks.
Has the garage returned your "fake" keys to you?
Did they at any time explain the problem, or tell you what a favour they were doing by not charging you the going rate for all the work they had to do.
I'm guessing they have not returned the damaged keys, and without them you will find it difficult to prove your point.
Perhaps you could post up the reasons the garage gave so Chaz (who has expertise in this field) could comment.

[sepia]

Re: When they break your perfectly good working car....

Well..., yes, they gave me both the keys back and I have taken photos of all the serial and part numbers on the side of the keys..., and I have them here with me now.. They said they would discount a new key to me..., it should have been £130 but they charged £110...
When we were 4 days in to this, they told me that the entire security system in the car needed replacing at a cost of nearly £800 at which time I told them to do the work and I would pay it in full and then take them to the Small Claims Court... I had no option but to resort to this as I was having to find £30-£40 a day for the hire car..., and they just didn't seem capable of resolving it... I also read somewhere that they can reserve the right to give you your car back unless you pay first.., so I could have been off the road for ages...
I called their bluff, I just needed my car back.., and within hours they came up with another plan which was simply to buy a new key from the car manufacturer..., which worked!.. What they had done was to totally corrupt my working key which had given them no way of going back, then they stabbed in the dark at other solutions until someone must have suggested the "simple" and cheapest answer first and that was to try a new key...
Trading Standards informed me that as at no point they had said they were not happy to do the work and I drove a perfectly good working car in there, they were liable under contract law to give me the car back in that condition and were liable for any consequential loss on my part...
Is that how you read it...?, is it more complicated than that...?

[chaz301975]

Re: When they break your perfectly good working car....

Have read your PM , thanks.
Has the garage returned your "fake" keys to you?
Did they at any time explain the problem, or tell you what a favour they were doing by not charging you the going rate for all the work they had to do.
I'm guessing they have not returned the damaged keys, and without them you will find it difficult to prove your point.
Perhaps you could post up the reasons the garage gave so Chaz (who has expertise in this field) could comment.

des8 is right and i am more than willing to give you any help i can with my 30 years of experence.
but im betting you did not get your old parts back.
also if you havent gone to the cars manufactures direct with a complant i would as. they have far more at stake than a dealer so give them a email or a letter

[sepia]

Re: When they break your perfectly good working car....

I got the keys back and I opened a complaint directly with the manufacturer and they in turn contacted the dealer...., but they were not very helpful... They basically said it was between me and the dealer..., and washed their hands...

[chaz301975]

Re: When they break your perfectly good working car....

Well..., yes, they gave me both the keys back and I have taken photos of all the serial and part numbers on the side of the keys..., and I have them here with me now.. They said they would discount a new key to me..., it should have been £130 but they charged £110...
When we were 4 days in to this, they told me that the entire security system in the car needed replacing at a cost of nearly £800 at which time I told them to do the work and I would pay it in full and then take them to the Small Claims Court... I had no option but to resort to this as I was having to find £30-£40 a day for the hire car..., and they just didn't seem capable of resolving it... I also read somewhere that they can reserve the right to give you your car back unless you pay first.., so I could have been off the road for ages...
I called their bluff, I just needed my car back.., and within hours they came up with another plan which was simply to buy a new key from the car manufacturer..., which worked!.. What they had done was to totally corrupt my working key which had given them no way of going back, then they stabbed in the dark at other solutions until someone must have suggested the "simple" and cheapest answer first and that was to try a new key...
Trading Standards informed me that as at no point they had said they were not happy to do the work and I drove a perfectly good working car in there, they were liable under contract law to give me the car back in that condition and were liable for any consequential loss on my part...
Is that how you read it...?, is it more complicated than that...?

it should realy be as simple as that i dont no what car you have but some cars also have a small imobilizer chip i the key that is seperate to the remote. it may have bean just that that would not program in. you could always go to your local specialist garage and ask them to check out you old keys you may find they can at least get one of them to work and you will have a spare. if you havent gone to the manufacter direct i would.

[chaz301975]

Re: When they break your perfectly good working car....

contact the press department and ask them for a coment as your writing a revew on line and want to give them a chance to coment. if they ask what site just say autotrader or some thing like that. that tends to wake up cust comp departments

[ostell]

Re: When they break your perfectly good working car....

I had an argument with a main dealer about a car and shoddy work. Their solicitor tried every which way to persuade me that I would lose in court, with large costs to pay. In the end they paid what I was asking, though they did say they would pay by cheque, which I refused on the basis of they would not have accepted a cheque by me. It would have cost them more if it had gone to court. They lost their dealership some months afterwards.