Council Tax Single Persons Discount - Can Anyone Help

[missmooch]

Hi


Hoping someone knowledgable on council tax single persons discount can help, and apologies in advance for the long post.


Basically OH and myself moved into rented accommodation in January. We informed council tax office of our move and they acknowledged this, and amended our 13/14 bill. The tenancy agreement was for 6 months, OH was named on the tenancy agreement with me named as 'permitted occupier' as I am self employed (though not sure what difference that makes, but the letting agent was quite firm that was the only way to allow me to live there.)


Shortly after, OH was offered a permanent job abroad which he started in April. I informed the council the day after he left, by email,requesting empty persons discount and highlighting the fact that despite our direct debit details having not changed, they had yet to take any council tax from us at the new property.


I got an auto response saying they were very busy but would be in touch.


At the end of a July when our tenancy had finished I moved overseas to be with OH. I informed the council that I had now left the premises and was living abroad, and that they had never been in touch regarding my email from April, requesting single persons discount, and advising them that they had still failed to take payment.


They got back to say I had in fact left in August according to the letting agent, and would be billed as such, and that I did not qualify for an empty persons discount as OH was named on the tenancy agreement.


I responded by requesting copy of evidence provided by the letting agent proving I did not leave until August and gave them a copy of the tenancy agreement showing the end date. As regards the single person discount, I emailed them a copy of OH pay slip showing his April start date and asked why would the tenancy agreement make any difference? If OH owned a house, his name was on the deeds, and he left to work abroad permanently, but I still resided at his house, would I still not qualify for single persons discount?


This was their reply.....


I am in receipt of your copy tenancy agreement and have followed this up with a call to Letting agent and they have now agreed that the tenancy should be ceased on 30th July. Your account has therefore been amended to reflect this.


Because Mr Xx vacated this address to work abroad, for the purposes of Council Tax and because the tenancy agreement was in his name, this would remain his sole and main residence until the tenancy end date and therefore no Single Person discount can be granted.


Your outstanding liability for this address therefore has now reduced to x


As we are legally bound to issue you with any demands relating to your account, please provide a forwarding address for correspondence purposes. If we do not receive this, the demands will be issued to you at your last known address.


Nice huh? As you can see they have not answered any of my questions to explain things more fully.


I still can't see what difference the tenancy agreement makes. I know we have a legal obligation to pay for all services (gas, water etc) for those 6 months regardless of whether we live there or not, and I understand I still have a legal obligation to pay council tax for those months, but I fail to see why the tenancy agreement muddies the waters regarding granting single persons discount, as per their definition this was not his sole or main residence in the dwelling. Maybe I should email confirmation from the tax office of the date he left.

I am still unclear on the 'sole and main residence' criteria.


Definition of a resident:
‘An individual who has attained the age of 18 years and has his sole or main residence in the dwelling.’
The courts have accepted the following principles:
• Residence implies some degree of permanence. OH has indefinite permanent job contract abroad and we can prove this.
• Temporary presence does not make a person resident there. Have a tenancy agreement abroad for a years term so permanent (That's how they do it here)
• Temporary absence does not deprive a person of residence. He had left the rented accommodation permanently which we can prove. This just happened to fall part way through the fixed term of the tenancy agreement.


Just find it a little strange that for income tax purposes, a massive institution like HMRC, have accepted OH has left the country and no longer resides in the UK, yet the local council doesn't for council tax? You have to prove to HMRC that you are no longer domiciled in the UK. They have accepted this so why such complication for council tax. Any income tax bill is likely to have a far higher liability than council tax.


Also I own a property back in the UK, that I am landlord of. A couple moved in during the fixed term, and split up shortly after. He moved out and she stayed in the property. I received a letter from the council saying she had applied for single persons discount and asked me a few question regarding his leaving. Never then was there a mention that as he was still on the tenancy agreement he would have to continue until the 6 months was up. She was then subsequently granted the discount.

OH has also asked around in work. All other Brits in similar circumstances have had the discount, the difference being they were married, we were not, they had kids at school in the uk,we didn't. However they were living in their own homes, not renting like us.


Hoping someone can shed some light on this.


Thanks for any help.

[PlanB]

Re: Council Tax Single Persons Discount - Can Anyone Help

Broadly speaking council tax liability is based on the "occupants" of a property and tenancy agreements are often used as a legal yardstick.

You may need to prove that although your husband was working abroad he had no access to the rented property after he started his new job in another country. Did he take absolutely everything of his with him (no clothes left in the wardrobe) and did he never return to the property after he left? It seems the council have seen this as him living there but working abroad.

Proving he was living elsewhere would also help. Does he have a tenancy agreement for the property he occupied in the other country? The council may then be forced to accept that he can't be living in two places at once.

[labman]

Re: Council Tax Single Persons Discount - Can Anyone Help

Proving he was living elsewhere would also help. Does he have a tenancy agreement for the property he occupied in the other country? The council may then be forced to accept that he can't be living in two places at once.

Temporary presence does not make a person resident there. Have a tenancy agreement abroad for a years term so permanent (That's how they do it here)

It appears they're covered for the second bit. How would the council know if anything of his had been left in the rented property?

The words 'red tape' and 'jobsworth' spring to mind.

[PlanB]

Re: Council Tax Single Persons Discount - Can Anyone Help

It appears they're covered for the second bit. How would the council know if anything of his had been left in the rented property? The words 'red tape' and 'jobsworth' spring to mind.

True. But the OP is on the back foot. I was in a similar situation when my daughter left home :Cry::Cry::Cry: I invited the council to inspect my property to prove her absence. There was clearly no sign of her shoe collection which she would not leave home without

The OP was quoting from a unknown source when she said "having a tenancy agreement from abroad for a year's term" which is why I suggested she may have to provide proof of this.

Red Tape and Jobsworthy is the name of the game I'm afraid.

[labman]

Re: Council Tax Single Persons Discount - Can Anyone Help

My wife's nephew and his wife have just been fined for claiming he was not living at the family property when he was (he was claiming he was living with his parents). I have no sympathy for them, but it is the likes of them who make the councils overly cautious in this type of scenario.

[missmooch]

Re: Council Tax Single Persons Discount - Can Anyone Help

Hi Guys

Many thanks for all your replies.

Ok going to go back to the council today with the following:

• again the pay slip for April showing April start date (I will also stress he was in the middle east - not the easiest of places to pop home from for the weekend!)
• I will remind them i emailed them the day after he left, and have a receipt for this email, yet they never responded. However I gave them every opportunity to inspect the property to confirm all of my partners effects had been taken
• I will give them a copy of the tenancy agreement. This did not start until July 1st, as he was put up in works temporary accommodation until he found his feet. However I have a letter from his HR department confirming the dates he was in company accommodation.
• I will give them a copy of his contract that states he has to give 6 months notice -so couldn't have returned during this time.
• a copy of his residency permit with 19 April date stamp
• I will mention about his colleagues who has children and where married, therefore has stronger ties to the UK than partner did.

Do you think I have covered everything?

Thanks

[MDfrance]

Re: Council Tax Single Persons Discount - Can Anyone Help

Before you go down a route of argument with a council you have to think on which way they can argue against your point

What the council will be looking for is your husband/partner a register voter at the address and is he included on any of the utility bills and or holds bank accounts at the address and any company or financial institution that logs information with credit reference agencies. The other thing is has he claimed the address as his UK residence with HMRC and the DWP and up until which point. The other problem is if you are married and not in the process of separation or divorce and therefore he can treat the residence as his home when visiting, especially if he is contributing to the running costs. Even so this is purely circumstantial and not valid proof or residency under the Local Government Finance Act 1992.

Ironically if you are not married you could claim that you are kept and he effectively has guaranteed tenancy. Once you prove he has temporary residency in another country for the entire period you would have a better chance of telling the council to go forth and state that they are harassing and demanding money under false pretences.

They will probably argue that your OH would have left the country on a permanent basis. Utter rubbish as council tax applies for the period of residency in that property and if you move to a larger or smaller property within the tax year you will pay council tax on a pro rata basis on both properties. So if you leave the country an move to Al Ain or Paris it makes no difference. In any case the definition of 'sole or main residence' in section 6 (5) (b) the Local Government Finance Act 1992

• “resident”, in relation to any dwelling, means an individual who has attained the age of 18 years and has his sole or main residence in the dwelling.
  
  

This is something that interprets the liability when it comes to students of a single parent who live away from home during the academic year but in fact applies to anyone who works and is resident away from home. The greater security of tenure in area or country of residence at the time of liability comes into force and the council can't make a unilateral decision without sufficient documented evidence.

Where they might try and seize the point is on is the voter register and if he has spent any time there as his principal residence during the period. There may be a sliding scale in force and the council will have to explain this. The fact that HMRC has accepted your OH has gone abroad to live and work and at a which point is also crucial as it will offset any voter register mistake. After all the voter register has been out of date and incorrect in every single UK property I lived in since the 1980s up until I left the UK and is probably the same for the majority country.

Finally write to them and tell them to put into writing exactly why they believe you should pay in relation to the LGFA 1992 and how they are interpreting your and that of your non resident OH liability to pay in full and excluded from any discount and or exemption. I would also send a copy to your local councilor and MP to boot.

good luck

[MDfrance]

Re: Council Tax Single Persons Discount - Can Anyone Help

P.S There is another thing, many councils use the term in exclusion "these include" when explaining the persons who may be exempt. This is a slippery get out from not mentioning people who may be exempt under single occupancy rule, specifically ex pats and non resident workers with homes in the UK.

They will have to be specific within the LGFA in excluding discount in relation to your OH in his capacity as a "non resident" in their reasons.

[labman]

Re: Council Tax Single Persons Discount - Can Anyone Help

Before you go down a route of argument with a council

I think the whole point of taking the route the OP is taking is to provide solid proof and avoid any argument. They cannot argue against definitive proof.

[MDfrance]

Re: Council Tax Single Persons Discount - Can Anyone Help

I think the whole point of taking the route the OP is taking is to provide solid proof and avoid any argument. They cannot argue against definitive proof.

The point was to work out what the council could argue to reinforce their position and the OP can get their ducks in a row with the counterpoint making the councils mute! I have found that if I place myself in the opponent's shoes and work their approach and reasoning then it is easier to put across something that nullifies their position. It also means you should read beyond the first line and take it all in context :tinysmile_hmm_t2: