Question about the ECHR and the housing crisis in the UK

[infin8te]

Firstly, I am merely a tenant in a private rental, I have no legal experience or anything like that,.

I have written to my MP, as well as the Housing Minister and various other government bodies about the housing crisis and how bad the current system is, especially the private rented sector.

Although my MP (a Lib Dem) was sympathetic and actually bothered to reply to my letter, he said there was very little he could do. I have either had generic responses or no response at all from all the other politicians/groups I have written to.

There seems to be little political will to actually deal with the housing crisis, presumably because most politicians own multiple houses or are landlords and building companies and landlords keep them in power. Boris Johnson seems to happily have his head in the sand in regards to the acute housing crisis in London but I suppose he never has to worry about paying the rent or not being able to decorate.

Anyway, the crux of this post is that I wondered if the EU legal system could be used to force some changes through? Since it looks like the UK is going to stay in the EU at any cost, us mortals might as well try and use EU laws or the ECHR to our advantage. Since there is little political will from UK politicians to help the younger generation, bring down house prices or radically overhaul the private rented sector, perhaps there is a way that EU laws can force these changes through?

There must be some part of the ECHR that is being broken by not only by the appalling lack of rights for tenants in the PRS but also by the disparity between rights and costs of those in the Private Rented Sector compared to those in social housing.

I know that the ECHR only applies to public bodies but there must be some way of challenging the status quo, which is currently exploitative, damaging the economy and destroying lives.

I feel very passionately that something needs to be done but it is like banging your head against a brick wall since it is so very hard to change a system which is made by those who benefit from it.

[leclerc]

Re: Question about the ECHR and the housing crisis in the UK

I think you need to narrow down what you are challenging to be honest in this regards. I am also a private tenant(rent a room in a house), but I do not see the same things you are seeing, however, I live in a university city where there is properties/rooms available to rent.

[Perturbed]

Re: Question about the ECHR and the housing crisis in the UK

This is something that also concerns me a lot. I am also renting in London, living in shared accommodation as I can no longer afford to live by myself, even in a tiny "studio flat". I work part-time with those who are homeless or at risk, but it often feels like homelessness is just a small step away for a lot of us...

[SpringerSpaniel]

Re: Question about the ECHR and the housing crisis in the UK

A confederation of London Housing Associations are getting togther to not only build and provide more traditional social housing but also to offer stable homes to those priced out of the hosuing market, so that at least it will be possible to rent from a reputable organisation who maintain the property properly, and it will be possible to get a longer term lease than 6 months AST.

Parts at least of the housing association sector are trying to offer a wider range of tenure to help alleviate this situation. I have just applied for a scheme where you rent first, then have first refusal to buy, either outright or via shared equity if you become able to, and if you buy the rent paid already is taken off the purchase price.

North of the border, large housing builders are offering a plethora of schemes to help first time buyers, usually to overcome the difficulty of raising a 25% deposit by a private loan for 20%, sometimes deferred purchase / shared equity.

In terms of regulating the private sector, Jeremy Corbyn (Lab, Islington N) is leaading a campaign for regulation of private renting. He has a piece about this on his own website - I don't know if he's one of the MPs you've been in touch with. The registration scheme proposed is basically extending a scheme already operating in Scotland to England. The London Borough of Newham already implement a similar scheme, as poor quality hosuing and overcrowding are particularly prevalent there.

[infin8te]

Re: Question about the ECHR and the housing crisis in the UK

A confederation of London Housing Associations are getting togther to not only build and provide more traditional social housing but also to offer stable homes to those priced out of the hosuing market, so that at least it will be possible to rent from a reputable organisation who maintain the property properly, and it will be possible to get a longer term lease than 6 months AST.

Parts at least of the housing association sector are trying to offer a wider range of tenure to help alleviate this situation. I have just applied for a scheme where you rent first, then have first refusal to buy, either outright or via shared equity if you become able to, and if you buy the rent paid already is taken off the purchase price.

North of the border, large housing builders are offering a plethora of schemes to help first time buyers, usually to overcome the difficulty of raising a 25% deposit by a private loan for 20%, sometimes deferred purchase / shared equity.

In terms of regulating the private sector, Jeremy Corbyn (Lab, Islington N) is leaading a campaign for regulation of private renting. He has a piece about this on his own website - I don't know if he's one of the MPs you've been in touch with. The registration scheme proposed is basically extending a scheme already operating in Scotland to England. The London Borough of Newham already implement a similar scheme, as poor quality hosuing and overcrowding are particularly prevalent there.

Thanks for your reply.

Yes, I know about Jeremy Corbyn's work and about the new law in Tower Hamlets for landlords to be registered. I also read about housing associations planning to expand into the "build to let" sector.

The problem here in London (where I live) is that social housing is very scarce and tends to go to families that either have a disabled/very ill member or are homeless/overcrowded. It is almost impossible for middle income workers who can just about afford to pay London rents to get social housing and I am sure this will be the case even if/when HA's expand into the sector.

The way I see it is that it is all very well building more houses but there is finite land and building more homes tends to increase demand as there is an ever flowing need for more people to have affordable homes as more families are created and immigration continues.

What I am interested in is a) seeing if there is any way the discrepancy between tenure, rental costs, overcrowding laws etc between the social rented sector and the private rented sector can be challenged legally in any way.

For example, I live in a very small 2 bed flat (privately rented) with my 2 children. I pay well over £1000 for this. We are not allowed to decorate (as per the AST), we have (at the most) 6 months security of tenure and after this the landlord could evict us after 2 months with an S21. If we ask the landlord to do repairs which we feel are needed and the landlord refuses, there is little we can do because the landlord can issue a retaliatory eviction with little comeback. Compare this to an identical property in the social rented sector and you would find rent that is less than half what we are paying, a secure tenancy, a right to upgrade to a bigger property when the children are a certain age due to gender/age sharing rules, various obligations of the landlord to keep the social housing property well maintained in terms of structure and often upgrades of things like kitchens etc. No need to deal with rogue letting agents who charge astronomical fees.

I think the UK system needs to be more like those of Berlin or NY where there are rent controls, very good security of tenure, lots more rules and regulations for the landlord to comply with but most of all a thriving rental sector where tenants are seen as humans with rights, not just vermin who will pay the landlord's mortgage/pension. I have been renting for a long time and we have had so many problems and seen so much Rachmanesque behaviour which really is not fitting of a supposedly first world, major city.

[SpringerSpaniel]

Re: Question about the ECHR and the housing crisis in the UK

There used to be a Fair Rent Tribunal system which achieved at least some of what you suggest is needed. It was abolished under the Thatcher government, and followed by the creation of the AST under the Housing Act 1988.

[SpringerSpaniel]

Re: Question about the ECHR and the housing crisis in the UK

As to the new housing associaition scheme, it is not simply more social housing, badly needed though this is, but a new departure to assist those who are working but cannot afford to buy and do not qualify for tradtional social housing. It is therefore a significant policy change, although it is perhaps a return to the earlier role of housing associations propr to a period in which they largely funcitoned as an outsourced provider of council housing and gave tenancies only to those in priority on the council list.

[SpringerSpaniel]

Re: Question about the ECHR and the housing crisis in the UK

As to the issue of legal challenge, this type of case is known as 'campaigning litigation'. It generally draws attention to an issue, with a view to the law, or at least practice and procedure, being changed by government as well as any specific solutions for the individuals bring thee case.

The more people are affected by the change requested, the less likely this is to succeed. The housing crisis affects very large numbers, so I am not sure personally that litigation is going to be the best way forward, rather than initiatives to make more choices available to more peopel, as private renting is generally regarded as the option of last resort, togther with regulatory regimes as to the quality of such accmodation as is let in the private ssector eg as to safety and repair.

if you are personally facing retaliatory evicition, there is a firm of solicitors with expertise in this who have been helpful to another member. Post again if you need their details.

[seduraed]

Re: Question about the ECHR and the housing crisis in the UK

We have a generation of underbuilding and sale of council houses . This cannot be solved easily or quickly . However what we need are some politicians with courage and willling to grasp the nettle ofthe Nimbys. Large numbers of ses are needed , population needs to be controlled. and then we can llok to the future. To achive this we need to build more houses , bring empty homes into use by compulsory purchase , ease plannning restictions on converting spaces above shops. Then a large number of developments must be pushed though and made available as sociall housing . The sale of social housing must end .
Once all those are achieved we must plan to the long term and look to the reduction ofthe world population a sustainable . Which I have heardestimates at about 1Billion . Part of this can be achieved by linking aid to contraception but also requires education , pensions, clean water health care and security .

Rant over .

If you hate for this so be it I hold contravesial views and I know it .

[CleverClogs]

Re: Question about the ECHR and the housing crisis in the UK

Although my MP (a Lib Dem) was sympathetic and actually bothered to reply to my letter, he said there was very little he could do.

At least you have an honest Lib-Dem for an MP. Who is that rare specimen?

There seems to be little political will to actually deal with the housing crisis, presumably because most politicians own multiple houses or are landlords and building companies and landlords keep them in power.

And also because the private pension industry may partly depend on the property market. Can you begin to imagine how thousands - or millions - of pensioners would react if their private pensions proved to be less useful than savings with Equitable Life?

Anyway, the crux of this post is that I wondered if the EU legal system could be used to force some changes through?

By getting the European Gedankepolitzei to arrest Iain Duncan Smith?

It's a nice thought, but it won't happen.

Since it looks like the UK is going to stay in the EU at any cost, us mortals might as well try and use EU laws or the ECHR to our advantage.

What relationship do you suppose the ECHR has to the EU?

Do you believe that the EU imposed the ECHR on the UK?

[CleverClogs]

Re: Question about the ECHR and the housing crisis in the UK

population needs to be controlled.

How many children may a couple be permitted before they are forcibly sterilised?

Or do you prefer getting rid of all the "useless eaters" and other "Lebensunwertes Leben"?

[seduraed]

Re: Question about the ECHR and the housing crisis in the UK

I pont favour either of the nazi methods you are acusing me of . But the overpopulation question is the elephant in the room . Generally once women are educated and have access to contraception then birth rates tend to fall . All I propose is a lot more propaganda and help with birth control and more people understanding that we have a finite planet andrapidlty diminishing rescources. We'vealready reached peak oil , we are likely to run out of rare earths in few years , and there is an on goin crisis with water and enrgy . But enough I wont hijack the OP's thread any longer .

[infin8te]

Re: Question about the ECHR and the housing crisis in the UK

At least you have an honest Lib-Dem for an MP. Who is that rare specimen?


And also because the private pension industry may partly depend on the property market. Can you begin to imagine how thousands - or millions - of pensioners would react if their private pensions proved to be less useful than savings with Equitable Life?

By getting the European Gedankepolitzei to arrest Iain Duncan Smith?

It's a nice thought, but it won't happen.


What relationship do you suppose the ECHR has to the EU?

Do you believe that the EU imposed the ECHR on the UK?

Hello, as I said, I am not a lawyer and have little knowledge of the legal process or the relationship between the ECHR and our UK courts. However, it seems that a lot of the time UK courts are answerable and bound by decisions made by the ECHR. Forgive me if I am mistaken, your holiness, I am but a mere layperson in respect to this area.

The point I was trying to make is that since it is very very clear that no UK politician is likely to do anything about the appalling state of the private rented sector, perhaps the sector can be challenged in some way via European "human rights" laws? Presumably tenants in the PRS are human beings and have rights to equality, a roof over their head, not having to live with someone else's furniture and decorations, black mould etc. But because the PRS is not a "public body" it doesn't need to be equal to the social rented sector so two identical families living in identical properties can have completely different rents, security of tenure etc, simply because one is in the PRS and the other in the SRS.