6.5 hrs trapped between metal fencing

[ynot420]

Hi,

this weekend, me a group of friends attended a festival on the Isle of Wight called Bestival. The Bestival site is a few miles from the ferry port and they operate a shuttle bus service for people to travel between the 2 sites. The service is sub contracted to a nation coach company.

When we attempted to use the service for our return journey, the experience we encountered was absolutely horrific, in total we spent 6.5 hours in one of 4 channels, trapped between 6ft high metal fences with no food, water or toilets.

In addition to this, about 4 hrs into our ordeal, we realised that people in the other 3 channels were moving much quicker than us and had a wait time of only 2 hours ( compared to our 6). As we eventually got near to the front of the queue, it became obvious that the coach company stewards were totally incompetent in crowd management and were dramatically increasing the wait time through poor organization.

Due to our extended waiting time, we also incurred an additional £95 travel costs. due to our minibus having to wait at Portsmouth for us to arrive.

Today i have written the coach company a letter explaining the situation in detail and asking for a refund for all our tickets, payment for our additional travel costs and also compensation for the experience we had to endure.

I've done some looking into the company and they have a very poor level of customer service, so i don't have high hopes for their response. Can anyone please advise me as to other possible lines of complaint and persual of compensation? Also, i'm sure that somewhere in the ticket contact, it will say they are not liable for any extra travel costs or refunds. If anyone can advise me as to any laws that maybe helpful in reversing this?

Any help in this matter would be gratefully received.

Regards

[bluebottle]

Re: 6.5 hrs trapped between metal fencing

Hello Ynot and welcome to Legal Beagles.

Although coach companies put these exclusion clauses in their terms and conditions, they are subject to the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982, Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 (as amended) and Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Basically, they have to prove any exclusion clause is fair and reasonable in the circumstances and does not put the customer at financial disadvantage as a result of their actions. The Supply of Goods and Services Act covers consequential loss, that is, loss incurred as a consequence of a service provider's failure to exercise reasonable care and skill in the provision of the service they contracted to provide. Did the coach company provide any refreshments, access to toilet facilities or allow you to get out and walk around during your six-hour delay? Also, what reason was given for the delay? Was it the coach company's own staff who were responsible for the delay or was it staff employed by Wightline or Red Funnel who provide ferry services to the Isle of Wight from the UK mainland?

Whether you can obtain a full refund of your tickets is open to question, but you can certainly try and obtain full reimbursement of the additional travel costs incurred and compensation for the six-hour wait you endured.

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: 6.5 hrs trapped between metal fencing

Hi

This is based on my knowledge with British Rail, but to the best of my knowledge, in cases of extended delay at least basic toilet facilities are a legal requirement.
I know we had a delay of 8 hours once and we were advised to at least give out water.

I am checking the T&Cs of the ticket for you but I need the coach companys name, the coach I have found is Big Green coach (http://www.biggreencoach.co.uk/produ...conditions.pdf)

So far I have found 4.2 If we cancel or alter a Service or journey before it has started, other than due to events beyond our control*, we will have the following liability to customers with valid tickets:
a) to ensure the customer reaches their booked destination by making alternative travel
arrangements; or
b) cancelling the booking and enabling the customer to claim a full refund of the fare paid. If
any portion of the service has been used, such as the outward portion of a return ticket,
then 50% of the fare will be refunded
4.4 Other than specifically detailed in these Terms and Conditions, we will not be liable for
any loss, damage, liability, or cost suffered by you as a result of any cancellation, withdrawal,
delay or alteration of any service by us.

4.6 Big Green Coach Limited will not be liable for any failure to fulfil our service as advertised
to the customer, which is caused by events outside our reasonable control. These events
include any act, event, non-happening, omission or accident beyond our reasonable control
and include in particular (without limitation) the following:
*Reasons of emergency and events considered beyond our control:
- Riot - Civil Unrest – Fire and/or damage at a scheduled arrival or departure point - War or
threat of war – Acts of Vandalism and Terrorism – Strikes, Lock Outs or other industrial
action – Stoppage or restraint of labour – compliance with requests, acts, decrees,
legislation, regulations or restrictions from the Police, other emergency services, customs or
other government officials and security services - extreme weather condition or natural
disaster – impossibility of the use of other means of public or private transport - extreme
road conditions, including unforeseen traffic delays and accidents causing delays on the
service route – vehicle being unavailable to Big Green –impossibility of the use of public or
private telecommunications networks - problems caused by other customers – bankruptcy,
insolvency or cessation of trade of any carrier used by us – any circumstances which affect
passenger safety.

16. Refunds
These refund terms and conditions apply to a travel ticket and an event entry ticket whether
sold individually or as part of the same transaction. The travel ticket is subject to Big Green
Coach terms and conditions. When purchasing an event entry ticket the Customer will be
asked to accept any terms and conditions associated with that Event Entry Ticket. These
terms and conditions will differ depending on the event and they may include separate
refund policies and procedures the Customer agrees to follow. 16.1 Once you have completed the purchase of your ticket you are not permitted to cancel
the ticket and we are not liable to refund you for the ticket in any circumstances, unless
specified in these Terms and Conditions, or subject to any situation deemed reasonable by
Big Green Coach Limited.
16.2 All ticket cancellations and refund claims must be made directly to Outgoing Limited
and the contact details shown on the Website.
16.3 If applicable, outgoing will usually refund any monies to you using the same method
used to make the initial payment.
16.4 If a segment of your booked journey is to be fulfilled by a third party then any
cancellation and refund is subject to the terms and conditions of the third party. We will
provide information regarding this upon request after the booking is cancelled.
16.6 Refund procedure: The following conditions must be met for any refund.
16.6.1 The “lead” customer named on the ticket and who purchased the ticket must make
the claim. It may be necessary for us to ask for proof of identity to determine whether or not
the claim is valid.
16.6.2 The claim must be made directly to Outgoing Ltd using the contact details on the
website no later than 31 days following the date from which your ticket was valid for travel.
16.6.3 Outgoing Ltd reserve the right to charge an administration charge of up to £5 for
processing a refund.
16.6.5 Once a refund is processed your booking is cancelled and we have no further liability
to you.
16.7 All refunds are for the full face value of the travel or event entry ticket only, unless
specified in these terms and conditions. No refunds will be given for any booking, credit or
debit card, transaction or postage fees that were charged at the time of purchase.
16.8 In the event that a customer is deemed entitled to a refund for an event entry ticket for
whatever reason and should Outgoing have previously transferred your monies to the event
owners for the face value of the event entry ticket, then Outgoing Ltd must receive a full
refund from the event owner before being obliged to refund the customer. Outgoing Ltd will
use all reasonable endeavours to recover this money in order to process the refund but will
not be liable should we be unable to recover this money. .


personally I can see nothing that says we will not refund you if are staff are incompetent!

I have found out that if you are unhappy with the outcome, you can contact the Bus Appeals Body http://www.bususers.org/bab.html
their guidelines include

Bus stations should be well-lit and offer protection from the elements, and should provide safe and unthreatening shelter for passengers at all times of the day, with visible staff on duty to answer enquiries and deal with passenger problems. Clear and up-to-date information on bus services must be provided.

Compensation should be offered to passengers in the form of bus ticket vouchers or refunds in the event of delays caused by events within the bus company’s control - vehicle breakdown or non-availability, staff absences or shortages. In these circumstances, another awardwinning company will provide a free journey if passengers reach their stop destination more than 20 minutes late. We would like to see wider empowerment of drivers to administer refunds on the spot when things go wrong.

4.3 If we cancel or alter a Service on which passengers with valid tickets are already
travelling before reaching the booked destination, other than for a reason beyond our
control*, we will have the following liability to customers with valid tickets:
to ensure the customer reaches their booked destination by making alternative travel
arrangements or by providing a replacement vehicle which may not be exactly as advertised

[ynot420]

Re: 6.5 hrs trapped between metal fencing

hi Bluebottle, thanks for your reply.

Those laws and terms are very helpful indeed.

In answer to your questions....

Did the coach company provide any refreshments, access to toilet facilities or allow you to get out and walk around during your six-hour delay?

We had absolutely no access to toilets, water, or food and were almost literally trapped in a fenced off channel about 15ft wide for over 6 hours, even in an emergency it would have been hard to get out and we certainly wouldn't have been able to get back to where we were.

what reason was given for the delay?

no reason was given, but by the time we got to the front the staff had all but given up trying to organise the crowd.

Was it the coach company's own staff who were responsible for the delay

it was soley down to the staff of the company, no other comapnies or agencies were present.

[ynot420]

Re: 6.5 hrs trapped between metal fencing

hi puffrose, thanks also for your detailed reply, very helpful indeed.

you have the right company, thanks for the t&C links, i've read and digest them later.

Bus stations should be well-lit and offer protection from the elements, and should provide safe and unthreatening shelter for passengers at all times of the day, with visible staff on duty to answer enquiries and deal with passenger problems. Clear and up-to-date information on bus services must be provided.

This was a makeshift "station" in a field, it was completly unprotected from the elements

I will await their reply and go from there if i am not happy with their offer.

If you like i can PM you a copy of the letter i sent them today?

regards

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: 6.5 hrs trapped between metal fencing

I can have a look for you if you want hun only to happy to do that for you

[bluebottle]

Re: 6.5 hrs trapped between metal fencing

The matter certainly needs to be referred to the appropriate HSE inspectorate. This coach firm needs a rocket up their backsides.

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: 6.5 hrs trapped between metal fencing

im on it BB.

Will have the relevent people asap!

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: 6.5 hrs trapped between metal fencing

Isle Of Wight H&S Exec http://www.iwight.com/living_here/en...th_and_Safety/

HSE guidelines for crowd control: http://www.hse.gov.uk/event-safety/crowd-management.htm

sorry for multiple edits guys, adding as i find!



Big Green Coach Terms and Conditions
Outgoing Ltd is acting in the capacity of a booking agent for Big Green Coach. By completing
this transaction you are agreeing to the Terms and Conditions below.
Outgoing Ltd does not promote Big Green Coach products nor do they set prices. They only
charge a booking fee or transaction fee and a card fee
Outgoing Ltd will deduct your payment from your card at the time it processes your credit /
debit card transaction. When you purchase a ticket via the Big Green Coach website, all
transaction details that you provide to us (including your name and credit card details) will
be held and used in accordance with Outgoing’s Privacy and Cookie Policy and will be
encrypted using SSL (secure socket layer) technology. Outgoing will take reasonable steps to
safeguard transaction details, but you acknowledge and agree that the use of internet
booking can never be completely secure.
Outgoing are responsible for refunds and payment disputes in accordance with the Event
terms and conditions laid down by Big Green Coach Ltd. Any payment disputes or issues in
respect of payments should be directed to Outgoing Ltd who’s address is 3 The Stables,
Wilmslow Road, Manchester, M20 5PG.

[bluebottle]

Re: 6.5 hrs trapped between metal fencing

im on it BB.

Will have the relevent people asap!

What, arranging for a rocket to be stuck up the backsides of the coach firm's senior management? Can I light the blue touchpaper, please? Lol!

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: 6.5 hrs trapped between metal fencing

*passes the swan vestas*

go for it, but remember your Hi Vis and ear defenders... H&S you understand