recorded telephone conversations

[brummie]

Good evening everybody

Now we have all heard it, "this call may be recorded for training blah, blah", but if you were to challenge one to reveal the recordings of a call, let's say to a call-centre, that you feel has ill-advised you, can you do it as a SARS type request? If so, how does the transcript of the call stand if you feel that the advisor has indeed got their matter wrong and has given you the wrong information?
If you , or me, were to start recording such conversations would it be liable or of any use should you wish to use it at a later date? If only to prove that said call-centre gives out the wrong information?

Regards,
Pondering....

[labman]

Re: recorded telephone conversations

SAR's do include telephone recordings.

As for personal recordings, in this country, as long as the recordings are for personal use and not to be shared, then you can record away. Should you want to use a recording you have made as evidence in court, then you would have to ask the judge for it to be admissable.

I have a TRUcall and it records all calls. Most are deleted, but relevant ones are saved just in case.

It has been extremely useful to be able to tell people I have a recording of what they said at times.

[brummie]

Re: recorded telephone conversations

Thanks Labman.... so to receive the transcripts i should approach as the normal procedure for SAR's and pay my tenner, correct? Could i use the contents of the transcript to make aware the organisation of their errors, without physically using the recording but quoting text?

[bluebottle]

Re: recorded telephone conversations

Hello Brummie,

Labman is absolutely correct about SARs including telephone conversations. I've SAR'd them myself from a number of companies when there have been disputes. As for whether you have to make do with a transcript, the answer is to stipulate in the SAR that you require the actual voice recordings and will not accept a transcript. If you don't make this stipulation, the company you are making the SAR to is not breaching the DPA by sending you a transcript.

With regard to making your own recordings of any telephone conversations you have with a company, which you intend to use, potentially, as evidence in legal proceedings, the general rule, here, is that you must make it clear at the beginning of the conversation that you intend to record the conversation and that it may be used as evidence in legal proceedings.

I would suggest you say the following -

"I intend to record this conversation for record and evidential purposes. The recording may be used as evidence in legal proceedings. Do you understand?"

Allow them to acknowledge that they understand. If they object, ask them -

"Am I to understand that you do not wish to continue this conversation?"

If they indicate that they do not wish to continue the conversation, you cannot force them to continue. If they indicate they will only continue the conversation if you do not record the conversation, stand your ground. It can often be an indication that they do not want to incriminate themselves or their company. If that is the case, let them hang up.

If the person is happy to continue, record the conversation and at the end say -

"Thank you for your co-operation. Do you require a copy of this recording? If so, I will provide you with a copy on CD."

It is good practice to offer a copy. It shows you are being fair with them and if you do have to use it as evidence later, you will have already complied with your obligations under the Civil Procedures Rules 1998.

If you have to use a recording as evidence in legal proceedings, please bear in mind that you will have to submit a copy of the recording and a transcript with any other evidence you intend to rely on to the court office. You must, however, keep the original recording and take it with you to any hearing, as the judge will, in all probability, ask if the recording submitted with the case papers is a copy or the original. If this happens, produce the original to the hearing so that the judge can see it. It is the same with any legal proceedings that originals must be available for the judge to see. So long as you follow the rules of evidence and play ball with the courts, you shouldn't have any problems. If you are not sure, always consult a legal professional.

I have based the foregoing on my experience of conducting interviews, under caution, in police station recorded interview rooms, following statutory codes of practice under PACE.

I hope that the posts Labman and I have made answer your questions.

Bluebottle

[brummie]

Re: recorded telephone conversations

Thanks bluebottle

I think that i have the right info to go forward now. If only these people would teach their call-staff properly....tut-tut.

Regards,
Brummie.

[bluebottle]

Re: recorded telephone conversations

Tell me about it! LOL!

[labman]

Re: recorded telephone conversations

Bluebottle,

You may be right, but I think the judge still needs to make personal phone calls permissable as evidence. It is likely to be different with police interview recordings.

I am going solely on the booklet that came with my recording machine and subsequent conversations with them though, along with wanting to use something I had recorded as evidence once. That said I did not warn them as I did not want them to be guarded in what they were saying, I wanted them to dig a nice big hole for themselves.

I can dig the booklet out and look up the relevant legislation quoted if you want. :beagle:

[Lady of the wells]

Re: recorded telephone conversations

I am so sorry if I sound thick....but I need to request 2 telephone transcripts from a debt recovery company, to help with my complaint that I have with FOS.
I can see the mention of "SARS" but I have no idea what that means.
Would somebody be able to enlighten me re this please?

[labman]

Re: recorded telephone conversations

SAR = Subject Access Request. It's to do with the Data Protection Act 1998, and gives the data subject (you) the right to ask for all information held about them by most organisations in exchange for a maximum fee, which most charge, of £10.00.

Here is an example letter:

Dear Sir/Madam

Data Protection Act 1998 Subject Access Request

Please would you kindly provide full and complete copies of any and all data you hold which relates to me and my entire history with your company. I have enclosed the statutory maximum of £10.

For the avoidance of doubt, take note that the enclosed cheque/Postal Order is payment for the fee relating to my Subject Access Request only and not a payment of any other kind or to be used for any other purpose. If you do not require a fee in order to process my Subject Access Request then kindly return or destroy my cheque / PO.

For your convenience I have detailed below a list of what I require, although this is not an exhaustive list by any means and is just an example of some of the information I require with regard to any accounts I may have had or may still have with your company.

1. Computer screen notes relating to the conduct of my account
2. Computer screen notes relating to transactions that have gone through my account
3. Internal messages or notes relating to the conduct of my account
4. Internal messages or notes relating to transactions that have gone through my account
5. Recordings of any telephone conversations, whether internal or external, relating to my account
6. Copies of any e-mail's, or other electronic communications, whether internal or external, relating my account
7. Copies of letters relating to my account
8. All information relating to litigation or pre-litigation that has taken place on my account
9. A detailed statement of account showing a breakdown of all costs charged, showing in each case the reason for the cost and the actual cost against that item
10. Copies of all reviews conducted relating to my account
11. Copies of all other paperwork relating to my account.
12. Copies of any and all documentation issued to me or left at my property regarding my account
I trust that the above is clear and should you be in any doubt as to your obligations as a Data Controller, then I would advise that you consult your corporate counsel.

As detailed above, I have enclosed the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one to which all previous correspondence has been issued.

Yours faithfully


(Your Name)


Hope this helps!

[shell]

Re: recorded telephone conversations

Just a small add on. Don't ever sign the SAR with your real signature. Even better, get someone else to sign your name for you.

Also better to send a postal order as apposed to a check.

Send by recorded delivery if possible, then you know they have signed for it and when they have signed. They have 40 days in which to comply with your request.

[bluebottle]

Re: recorded telephone conversations

Bluebottle,

You may be right, but I think the judge still needs to make personal phone calls permissable as evidence. It is likely to be different with police interview recordings.

I am going solely on the booklet that came with my recording machine and subsequent conversations with them though, along with wanting to use something I had recorded as evidence once. That said I did not warn them as I did not want them to be guarded in what they were saying, I wanted them to dig a nice big hole for themselves.

I can dig the booklet out and look up the relevant legislation quoted if you want. :beagle:

With recordings being used as evidence in legal proceedings in English courts, you have to go by current laws and rules of evidence. That requires both sides to have copies of such recordings. With regard to covert recording of a telephone conversation, it is permissible to do this, but, as you correctly state, the trial judge must give permission for the recording to be admitted into evidence. You must also state your reasons for covertly recording a telephone conversation.

[seduraed]

Re: recorded telephone conversations

Do you need to tell the person on the other end of the phone that the recording is eing made as such ? for example "Good morning SeduraedI am John Smith from, very shady bent and dodgy det collectors; Please be aware that all call may be recorded monitored"
Seduraed "Likewise"

Would that be sufficient?

Also if you write to the company stating any further telephone calls with them will be recorded is that sufficient? I was particularly thinking of DWP as theycan can tell you one thing one day and something else another .

[labman]

Re: recorded telephone conversations

When I was dealing with the DWP I told them all calls were recorded and reminded them every phone call. I was confident it was going to go to court though, so this was wise. If just for proving a point to them, I wouldn't bother telling them, or mention it at the end saying, oh, by the way i've recorded this conversation, that's OK isn't it?

[bluebottle]

Re: recorded telephone conversations

If it's any help, I have covertly recorded telephone conversations with insurance company claims departments because, in my experience, they think nothing of lying through their teeth to get out of claims. Motor insurers are the worst. However, the law is due to change and should be fully in force by 2013, so this should become a thing of the past, excepting those who think the law doesn't apply to them.

One case I dealt with, I knew what the claims technician on the other end of the phone said was totally untrue and waited for him to well and truly hang himself and the insurer concerned before telling him the call was being recorded and would be used as evidence against him, the insurer and the other driver. Strangely, the insurer settled very quickly after that.

As Labman has said, it is a case of judging each case by its individual merits and circumstances as to whether you are open and upfront about recording the call or whether you go along the covert route. Probably, the best rule of thumb to use is "Does this firm, etc., have a history of giving out false/misleading/wrong information?" If the answer is "Yes", then covert recording may be justifiable under those circumstances. If the answer is "No", then, possibly, being upfront and open with them may be better. Someone who has no problems with having a conversation recorded is, in my experience, a person who has nothing to hide. On the other hand, a person who becomes edgy and evasive when it is proposed to record a conversation is someone I, for one, would not trust to give a straight answer.

The final decision has to be yours.

[gwenlillian]

Re: recorded telephone conversations

Hi, this is a very useful thread and it seems to be the answer to my question, unless the law has been changed since the last post. Has there been any change that would allow refusal to comply with my SAR on my lender, for telephone transcripts? They have written stating that they are not required to provide these under my rights of subject access, and also that they have redacted some information as their legal privilege?? I haven't heard of this myself? thanks