eurosun complaint

[bambisoloved]

Re: eurosun complaint

i booked to go to ikea heron way, west thurrock, essex
lakeside is a shopping center near ikea
1.454 km
0.903 miles
it takes 10 mins by car and 20-25 mins walking
hope this helps

bambisoloved

[bluebottle]

Re: eurosun complaint

i booked to go to ikea heron way, west thurrock, essex
lakeside is a shopping center near ikea
1.454 km
0.903 miles
it takes 10 mins by car and 20-25 mins walking
hope this helps

bambisoloved

Hello Bambi,

Thank you for getting back to me with the necessary details. If IKEA had been a five minute walk from Lakeside, I would say, drop the case. However, the figures you have quoted clearly show it is nearly a mile from Lakeside. When you get back to Consumer Direct, make it clear to them that IKEA is nearly a mile from Lakeside and, therefore, could not reasonably be regarded as being part of Lakeside. If they try to say otherwise, ask them to quote case law that confirms this. I would be very surprised if you have to do this.

If when you booked, you told Eurosun you wished to be taken to IKEA and they agreed, they have accepted the contract and are, therefore, bound by it.

I would be very surprised if they tried to use their driver's lack of drive-time as a get-out. If the coach had been held up by an accident or had been diverted onto a longer route due to roadworks en route to IKEA and the driver was forced to pull in at Lakeside in order to keep to the schedule he had been given or because his drive-time was out as a result, then that would be regarded as circumstances beyond Eurosun's control and it would, therefore, be reasonable to stop at Lakeside. Under those circumstances, you would not be able to claim reimbursement of the taxi fare you had to pay. If there were no delays, due to accidents or diversions and the driver pulled in at Lakeside simply because he was out of drive-time, that is a breach of contract. Eurosun should have ensured the driver who took the coach out of their depot had sufficient drive-time available for the journey to IKEA. Any time the driver then spent at IKEA or resting in the coach would count as "rest period".

When you respond to Consumer Direct's email, provided there were no delays or diversions en route, I would point out that when you booked the trip -

1. You specified you wished to be taken to IKEA;
2. That Eurosun accepted that;
3. There were no delays or diversions en route;
4. The driver admitted he/she was out of drive-time when they pulled into Lakeside;
5. That other passengers voiced their concern at the coach driver's attitude and were very angry towards him as a result;
6. The driver's threats to leave you and your grand daughter behind;
7. The effect this had on your grand daughter.

If you have not already done so, mention to Consumer Direct that you have written to the Area Traffic Commissioner about the driver undertaking the journey with insufficient drive-time available under the Drivers' Hours Regulations. Consumer Direct will, probably, make a note of this, but they cannot become involved in this aspect because it is a traffic matter which falls under the jurisdiction of the Department of Transport, not the Office of Fair Trading, who are responsible for Consumer Direct.

Would you let us know what sort of response you get from Consumer Direct, please?

Regards,

Bluebottle

[bambisoloved]

Re: eurosun complaint

thanks bluebottle

i will get back to consumer direct straight away and let you know their responce

bambisoloved

[bambisoloved]

Re: eurosun complaint

bluebottle i have had a responce from consumer direct today

he says if i was told that i would be taken directly to ikea and i have evidence of this then eurosun is in breach of contract

he goes on to say that if i looked at a map such as google the whole area is considered part of lakeside and ikea itself descibes itself as ikea lakeside
the trader may argue that by taking you within the vicinity of ikea they have fulfilled their obligation

i am not sure how to respond to this
how can i prove i was told i would be taken to ikea
all i have on paper is my excursion ticket which says lakeside/bluwater/ikea
when i rang eurosun i asked to go to ikea not lakeside even though they may be seen on a map as in the same area they are seen as two different shops with nearly a mile between them
what do you think i should do now?

bambisoloved

[bluebottle]

Re: eurosun complaint

Hi Bambi,

I've just taken a look on Google Maps and it's showing IKEA's address as Lakeside Retail Park, Heron Way, West Thurrock, Grays, Essex.

Lakeside is normally regarded as the shopping mall, not the retail park. I would go back to Consumer Direct and point this out to them. If this went before the Small Claims Court, the Registrar hearing the case would judge the case based on your expectations and what any reasonable person would regard as Lakeside. IKEA is on the retail park, not within the vicinity of Lakeside. It would be for Eurosun to prove IKEA was part of Lakeside and that they had fulfilled their side of the contract.

If you do decide to pursue this through the Small Claims procedure, the minimum court fee payable is £30.00. If your coach fare was £9.00 and taxi fare £10.00, making a total of £19.00, you need to decide if it is worth pursuing for that amount.

At the end of the day, the final decision has to be your own.

Bluebottle

[bambisoloved]

Re: eurosun complaint

thank you very much for that bluebottle
i will get back to consumer direct and point out all you have said
as for going to small claims court my tickets cost £29 and i presume i could claim for court fees as wll plus £10 taxi costs so it would be worth my while finantially but also worth it to make a point to eurosun
i feel so strongly about this not just the issue of not taking me to ikea but because of the drivers conduct he was so rude and had an arragant i dont care attitude
i think also eurosun`s appalling customer service it seems that once they had got my money they didnt care what happens afterwards i mean i didnt even get a letter acknowledgeing receit of my two letters i sent to them a terrible way to do business especially in these times because i will never use them again and anybody reading this may think twice about useing them also

bambisoloved

[bluebottle]

Re: eurosun complaint

thank you very much for that bluebottle
i will get back to consumer direct and point out all you have said
as for going to small claims court my tickets cost £29 and i presume i could claim for court fees as wll plus £10 taxi costs so it would be worth my while finantially but also worth it to make a point to eurosun
i feel so strongly about this not just the issue of not taking me to ikea but because of the drivers conduct he was so rude and had an arragant i dont care attitude
i think also eurosun`s appalling customer service it seems that once they had got my money they didnt care what happens afterwards i mean i didnt even get a letter acknowledgeing receit of my two letters i sent to them a terrible way to do business especially in these times because i will never use them again and anybody reading this may think twice about useing them also

bambisoloved

If you have to go through the Small Claims Court, your claim will comprise of the following -

£29.00 coach tickets
£10.00 taxi fare
£30.00 court fee
£69.00 total claim

Please check with your local County Court about the court fees as there are changes afoot for the Small Claims procedures.

From a practical point of view, whether you get all or some of the coach fare back is going to be up to the Registrar who hears the case, if it comes to that. They may order Eurosun to repay it in full or repay part of it. Your case is one where it could go either way. I feel the taxi fare should be okay and so should the court fee. However, as with any court hearing, no-one can tell, until the day of the hearing, how it is going to go. All I can say in this respect is the very best of luck.

Obviously, the coach driver's attitude and rudeness is going to be a factor that will be taken into account and the fact that the driver left the Eurosun depot with insufficient drive-time available to undertake the journey to IKEA. Additionally, if Eurosun advertised the trip as IKEA, that is where they should have taken you, not Lakeside Mall.

Have you heard from the Area Traffic Commissioner yet? Could you come back onto this thread and let us know when you hear, please?

[bambisoloved]

Re: eurosun complaint

hello bluebottle

thank you for all that information i will take your advice

i have had a letter from the office of the traffic commissioner
they say matters of compliance are taken very seriously and as they dont have any investigatory powers they have passed my complaint to mathew thompson, b.o.a.m. co-ordinator for v.o.s.a. berkeley house for them to deal with
i good responce i think i dout if eurosun will ignore him

bambisoloved

[bluebottle]

Re: eurosun complaint

Thanks for that, Bambi.

The Traffic Commissioners don't undertake the day-to-day enforcement of traffic matters - that's VOSA's job. The TAs have got the power to take a bus/coach/haulage firm's operator's licence away when circumstances warrant that sort of action.

Eurosun won't have any choice with VOSA. They have some pretty amazing powers. It's quite likely a VOSA iinvestigation officer will visit their depot and go through their driver records, including the tachograph and tachocard records. If they find any irregularities with drivers' hours, Eurosun could be in a lot of trouble. Drivers' Hours violations are taken very seriously where bus, coach and HGV operators are concerned, as the vehicles they use can cause carnage if a driver falls asleep at the wheel.

Keep us informed, please.

Bluebottle

[bluebottle]

Re: eurosun complaint

Hello again Bambi,

Thank you for getting back to us.

VOSA is the enforcement and investigation arm of the DfT. The TAs are part of the DfT also. They are responsible for overseeing licensing of goods and passenger vehicle operators, licensing bus services, etc..

If VOSA find there are Drivers' Hour irregularities at Eurosun, they can take action, including prosecution. As I have said in the past, drivers falling asleep at the wheel can cause carnage.

Would you let us know what you hear next from Consumer Direct and VOSA, please?

Thank you.

Bluebottle

[bambisoloved]

Re: eurosun complaint

hello bluebottle

yes i cirtainly will let you know
i havent had any thing back from consumer direct yet
i have a feeling that they wont because they have already written back to me and have given me their advice if i disagree with their advice i dont think they will reply

regards

bambisoloved

[bluebottle]

Re: eurosun complaint

Hi Bambi,

Like everyone else, Consumer Direct advisors are human and can get it wrong. In my experience, CD advisors are usually very good, but even I have had to correct them on the odd occasion.

The argument I put forward is based on experience and legal research. The Registrar at the Small Claims Court, like the judges who sit in the County Court, take the view any reasonable person would take in a dispute. Wait and see what CD say. You never know, they may well agree with you.

Bluebottle

[bambisoloved]

Re: eurosun complaint

hello bluebottle

yes i cirtainly will

i havent had anything further from consumer direct
i have a feeling that they wont because they have already got back to me and given me their advice and as i disagreed with that advice i think that they will probably think they cant say anymore
i am waiting now for V.O.S.A to get in touch with me

do you think i should wait for V.O.S.A to compliete their investigation before starting a small claim againt eurosun?

bambisoloved

[bambisoloved]

Re: eurosun complaint

sorry bluebottle

i didnt realise i had already done a reply

bambisoloved

[bluebottle]

Re: eurosun complaint

Hi Bambi,

VOSA will take their time with their investigation. It never pays to rush as vital evidence can be missed and that can mean the difference between conviction and acquittal, if VOSA find Drivers' Hours violations.

If you are going to pursue a claim against Eurosun in the Small Claims Court, you must follow the Civil Procedures Rules 1998. If you do not, it can prejudice or jeopardise your claim.

Because your claim is below £5K, you might like to consider trying to settle this matter by Small Claims Mediation. This can be more suitable than going to a full Small Claims hearing before a court. If you go to Website of the UK government : Directgov, you will find details about the mediation process. You can also obtain details from the court office at your local County Court.

Whichever you choose, check with the court office about both resolution paths.

With regard to you waiting until VOSA's investigation is complete, that is a separate matter and you must not mention that in any court papers you may issue or evidence you give at a mediation or court hearing as that would prejudice VOSA's investigation and it may prejudice your claim. You can, however, mention that the coach driver said he had to take a 45-minute break to do with his driving hours when he pulled in at Lakeside Mall, when he should have pulled in at IKEA. You can also argue that IKEA is on the Lakeside Retail Park and almost a mile from the Lakeside Mall and that the vast majority of people associate Lakeside with the Mall.

Check Directgov first, then, if you intend to proceed, visit the court office at your local County Court and take it from there. The very best of luck.

Bluebottle