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Council building work

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  • #1

    Council building work

    I had some work done on my house recently under a grant by my local council.
    When I was asked to appoint a builder to do the work I said I didn't know any builders. The man from the council said he could not recommend a builder but showed me a list of builders that he said did grant work for the council. I chose a builder and he was appointed to do the work.
    When the work had been completed an inspector from the council came to my house and signed the work off and released the money to the builder.
    A couple of months later a builder was doing some work next door and commented on the building work that had been completed on my house. The work had involved removing the end wall of my single story kitchen and rebuilding it.
    The builder put a spirit level on the wall and said it was not level, if fact he pointed out that the wall went in and out over its height. The builder said that the mortar was very sandy and was a very weak mix. The4 builder advised me to get a surveyor to inspect the work and make a report.
    I have employed a surveyor to report on the work. The surveyor inspected the wall, took photos, and also drilled holes in the mortar to insert a small camera on the end of a flexible rod (endoscope?). His report said that the wall was not level; there was no insulation in the cavity between the inner and outer walls. He also said there were no wall ties between the two walls. Also there was mortar bridging the cavity.
    The report said the wall was not safe and advised me to get an analysis of the mortar. I have just got a report back from a company that analyses mortar and they say that the normal mix for mortar should be 3 to 1 sand and cement. Analysis shows the mortar is a mix of 19 parts sand to 1 part cement and in their opinion the wall is unsafe.
    I contacted the builder and (surprise) he didn't want to know. I contact the person from the council who signed the work off and he visited me and said that he would get the builder to visit me. The builder visited me and just said he had done the best he could. I have corresponded with the council and they don't want to know. I complained tot the head of the council and he has appointed someone to look into my complaint. All I have had is an email from this person to say that the enquiry into this complaints will take 14 days. The 14 days is now up and I have heard nothing.
    Sorry for the length of this question but anyone that comments needs to know all the facts.
    Has anyone any advice what I should do now?
    Tags: None
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  • #2
    Re: Council building work

    Usually when building work is undertaken on a grant, the contract is between you and the builder. Even though the council paid them directly, the grant was from the council to you. This is why the council gave you a list of builders but could not 'recommend' any. Its a clever way of the council ensuring they are not liable for any problems later on. It may be worth trying to pursue this via the council, however a result here is unlikely. My mother had a gas fire fitted on a grant, which turned out to be unsafe. The council did not want to know and pointed her in the direction of the people that fitted it.

    Something else worthy of note, a grant for building work like this is normally only given out to fix a specific need - for example damp or something similar. If the new work has not fixed the original 'problem' then this strengthens your case.

    Write to the builder, enclosing copies of the reports you have received from the surveyor and mortar people, making your intentions known - eg, the construction is unsafe, unfit for purpose and that it needs to be rebuilt. Tell them you have tried to resolve this amicably but they appear to be not taking your complaint seriously. Also find out if the original builder was a member of any trade bodies/associations and, if they are, note in your letter that if the matter is not resolved you will be contacting those trade bodies as well as your local trading standards office. Send it recorded delivery.

    hopefully that will get the matter sorted out. If it does not, then the only options left are a complaint to any trade bodies they are a member of, a complaint to trading standards as well as having the wall rebuilt to the correct standard then pursuing the original builder for the cost via the county court.

    I advise against contacting the building standards/building control department of your local council at this stage. While they will be able to say 'this is unsafe,' if they do the onus is then on you to repair it, and they will likely make a legal order requiring you to do so to ensure no one is hurt should anything happen.

    If the original builders ignore your letter, do not put right the work and you intend to have it rebuilt (while pursuing the original builder for the cost via the county court) then it may be an idea to get building control in as they will 'rubber stamp' the unsafe nature of the construction which will help in court in proving your case.
    Advice given is offered as personal opinion only. I always recommend you seek professional legal advice.

    Negative, I am a meat popsicle
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    • #3
      Re: Council building work

      Hi Sharmen, I see the point to your advice but surely if the council inspector signed the work off and released the money to the builder, then doesn't this mean that the council have said that the work was completed correctly and they are satisfied with the quality of the work.

      Taking the builder to court would not be any use as I don't think he has two pennies to rub together as most of his work has dried up with the recession.
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      • #4
        Re: Council building work

        What type of Inspector signed off the work for the Council?

        A Building Control Officer?
        "Although scalar fields are Lorentz scalars, they may transform nontrivially under other symmetries, such as flavour or isospin. For example, the pion is invariant under the restricted Lorentz group, but is an isospin triplet (meaning it transforms like a three component vector under the SU(2) isospin symmetry). Furthermore, it picks up a negative phase under parity inversion, so it transforms nontrivially under the full Lorentz group; such particles are called pseudoscalar rather than scalar. Most mesons are pseudoscalar particles." (finally explained to a captivated Celestine by Professor Brian Cox on Wednesday 27th June 2012 )

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        • #5
          Re: Council building work

          Originally posted by rpjjuk View Post
          , I see the point to your advice but surely if the council inspector signed the work off and released the money to the builder, then doesn't this mean that the council have said that the work was completed correctly and they are satisfied with the quality of the work
          Any sane person would expect that, however local authorities are not known for being sane. As i said, you can try to get the council to fix the problem but I honestly beleie you will be fighting an uphill battle. The council will contend that the grant was yours and that the contract was between you and the builder. You can try to contend that their inspector signed off on unsafe work and that the councils list of builders supplied to you contained cowboys (while the council did not recommend an individual builder to you, the list they gave you was still a recommendation of a selection of builders, was it not?). If you pursue them enough and make enough trouble for them you may get somewhere, but I really would not hold your breath. Try to push the council some more. Perhaps even write to your local MP and explain whats going on (you can email your MP online)

          To be frank, when these council people come round to view the work completed under a grant scheme, most of their job is not to ensure that the work is well done or looks nice - its to ensure some work was completed, that you and the builder are not scamming money from the council and that the work looks relatively safe. Id be surprised if the council inspector even knows what the correct sand/cement ratio is.

          If the builder is broke (do you know this, or is he just saying this to try to fob you off?), then this explains why the mix is so bad - hes trying to cut down on his costs to boost profit. Find out if he was/is a member of any trade bodies as they may be able to help. Dont be put off that the builder may not have much money - he just got a nice amount of money from the council in the form of your grant, and you bet a lot of that money was pure profit for him. If is on the list the council gives out, what other jobs is he doing for the nice fat council grant cheques. He may paint a picture of being broke, but is this just an easy way to ensure nice people will not come after him for compensation for poor building work?

          At the end of the day, he must do his work right - if that wall comes down in say 5 years, 10 years and hurts someone it will be your responsibility, not his. If you every try to sell the home, that will need to be repaired first. As you know about the problem, you must declare it on any future sale so you will have to repair it as no one will want to buy a house with a wall that is unsafe.

          Im sorry that this news is not good. I wish I could paint a nicer, brighter picture, but from experience and experience of my family this sort of scenario is a tough one.
          Last edited by shamen; 7th June 2011, 20:20:PM.
          Advice given is offered as personal opinion only. I always recommend you seek professional legal advice.

          Negative, I am a meat popsicle
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          • #6
            Re: Council building work

            The question has to be asked what are shoddy builders doing on a council list, do the council not vet them in the first instance?
            If you think nobody cares if you're alive, try missing a couple of payments.

            sigpic

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            • #7
              Re: Council building work

              Originally posted by pompeyfaith View Post
              The question has to be asked what are shoddy builders doing on a council list, do the council not vet them in the first instance?
              Thats what I was trying to infer here

              that the councils list of builders supplied to you contained cowboys (while the council did not recommend an individual builder to you, the list they gave you was still a recommendation of a selection of builders, was it not?)
              Its a very valid argument point when trying to get the council to fix the problem.
              Advice given is offered as personal opinion only. I always recommend you seek professional legal advice.

              Negative, I am a meat popsicle
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              • #8
                Re: Council building work

                Yup that is the point I would be putting across in any complaint letter and also the fact that the council appointed inspector signed it off.
                If you think nobody cares if you're alive, try missing a couple of payments.

                sigpic

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                • #9
                  Re: Council building work

                  Update !!!!!
                  Council finally agreed to redo the work, rebuld the outer wall and remove and restore the inner wall.

                  The council put a tender out and picked another approved builder from their list.
                  Work was started on Jan 3rd 2012 and finished on the 6th Jan.
                  I had to stay with friends as the boiler had to be removed to renew the inner wall. I was popping back to my house everyday to check everything.
                  What went wrong:

                  Builder turned up on his own as he doesn't have any full time staff. I asked him if the boiler would be back on the wall and working by the weekend and he said it was doubtful. In the end I stayed and helped him. I carried the rubble from the old wall out to his pickup truck. I also carried the new bricks from his truck. I also helped him with lintels etc.
                  After the builder had built the stud inner wall I asked about insulation. The builder said he had a roll of insulation in his garage. I asked him if I could have some of the solid foam wall insulation and he said he would get some for £35.
                  Man called Phil turned up to remove the boiler on the 3rd.

                  During the work with the builder I smelled gas, the builder said he could smell it as well but did nothing as he thought it was coming from next doors boiler flue. The next day I could smell gas again. I went in my kitchen loft and the smell of gas was very strong. I checked the gas pipe and found that the builder had put a screw through the pipe!. He tried to phone someone to repair it but couldn't get hold of anyone.
                  I turned the gas off and called a friend of mine who is Gas Safe registered. He repaired the pipe and checked for leaks.

                  The next day the builder said that I should keep the £35 for the insulation to pay for the repair of the gas pipe.
                  The builders friend, Phil, turned up on the 6th to refit the boiler. He had a lot of truble and finally found that he had put a flange back on incorrectly. I got a bit suspicious and asked the builder for Phil's name and Gas Safe number. He gave me a name and Gas Safe number but the name was not Phil. I asked him and he said that evryone calls him Phil. I checked on the Gas Safe site and the photograph of the person shown for that name and number was not the person who had worked on our boiler. Later that day the council worker came to sign off the work. She gave me a copy of the schedule given to the builder. I told the council worker about the fact that the person who fitted the boiler was not the person listed on the Gas Safe site. She didn't want to know. I read the schedule and solid foam insulation was specified. The builder had tried to get an extra £35 out of me.


                  I phoned Gas Safe and reported what had happened. They checked the name and number on the site and the address, phone number, email address and photograph had been removed. Gas Safe told me that the registered Gas Safe person had removed the information. Apparently they can do this. I made a report out and sent it to Gas Safe. I have just been told they don't intend to take the complaint any further.
                  I have talked to the builder and he now admits he used an illegal gas fitter. In fact the man he used is the registered gas fitters father. He also admitted that he did not use treated timber as specified in the schedule.

                  At first I had a letter from the council apologising and saying that the builder would be in touch to rectify the problem including replacing the timber.
                  I have now had a letter from the council saying they wash thier hands of the whole problem.

                  Now what do I do? (Please don't reply "Shoot yourself" as I have already thought of that)
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                  • #10
                    Re: Council building work

                    Speaking totally as a layman in this, it would seem you were fortunate to get the council to redo the work in the first place. However, they did, and by doing so admitted liability. If they then instructed builders, surely they must be responsible for these builders and the quality of their work, along with ensuring they send someone qualified to ensure the work is carried out to the stated specification.

                    I know little about these issues, but that would seem common sense to me.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Council building work

                      Originally posted by rpjjuk View Post
                      At first I had a letter from the council apologising and saying that the builder would be in touch to rectify the problem including replacing the timber.
                      I have now had a letter from the council saying they wash thier hands of the whole problem.
                      There's the crucial bit. Breach of contract basically.

                      I'd get a bit legal on them....or at least send them a letter informing them of their breach and your intention to see it remedied fully. :beagle:
                      "Although scalar fields are Lorentz scalars, they may transform nontrivially under other symmetries, such as flavour or isospin. For example, the pion is invariant under the restricted Lorentz group, but is an isospin triplet (meaning it transforms like a three component vector under the SU(2) isospin symmetry). Furthermore, it picks up a negative phase under parity inversion, so it transforms nontrivially under the full Lorentz group; such particles are called pseudoscalar rather than scalar. Most mesons are pseudoscalar particles." (finally explained to a captivated Celestine by Professor Brian Cox on Wednesday 27th June 2012 )

                      I am proud to have co-founded LegalBeagles in 2007

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                      • #12
                        Re: Council building work

                        The relevant legislation is the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982-1994, which states that anyone providing services must do so within a reasonable period of time, to a reasonable standard of workmanship. Since the council appointed Calamity Kevin and he, in turn, hired someone to work on a gas appliance and supply system who wasn't authorised to do so, the council should shoulder the blame for not checking out Calamity's bona fides. Whether Calamity remains on the council's "recommended" list after this fiasco is another matter. Check with Consumer Direct just to be sure, but I think the Supply of Goods and Services Act is the one to plump for.

                        Bluebottle
                        Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.
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                        • #13
                          Re: Council building work

                          http://www.fototime.com/inv/037FE6D5BFE1DC1

                          I don't know if you will be able to see these pics of the new wall.
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                          • #14
                            Re: Council building work

                            Good grief!!!

                            That brickwork has NOT been done by a 'bricky'. No way.

                            Dreadful.
                            "Although scalar fields are Lorentz scalars, they may transform nontrivially under other symmetries, such as flavour or isospin. For example, the pion is invariant under the restricted Lorentz group, but is an isospin triplet (meaning it transforms like a three component vector under the SU(2) isospin symmetry). Furthermore, it picks up a negative phase under parity inversion, so it transforms nontrivially under the full Lorentz group; such particles are called pseudoscalar rather than scalar. Most mesons are pseudoscalar particles." (finally explained to a captivated Celestine by Professor Brian Cox on Wednesday 27th June 2012 )

                            I am proud to have co-founded LegalBeagles in 2007

                            If we have helped you we'd appreciate it if you can leave a review on our Trust Pilot page
                            If you wish to book an appointment with me to discuss your credit agreement, please email kate@legalbeaglesgroup. com
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                            • #15
                              Re: Council building work

                              It is truly scary to think these are on the approved list of contractors for your local council.

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