Overheating issue used car

[Daniel79]

Hi there,

Thank you for your suggestions.

One last thing, if I write an LBA addressed to the dealer, mentioning amount and everything and the dealer accepts to defend it, would it not be enough ground for claim? Sorry if that does not make sense.

When I wrote him a message a few weeks ago that I am writing a letter to him demanding a repair and if he doesn't accept it, I will take him to the court, he replied :

" The vehicle was booked in on Monday of in which I have not heard anything from you. The car was sold with warranty, the warranty company has offered to do the work however you are not getting the work done. This is no longer my responsibility, I am happy to go forward with small claims court. " ( after this he called and we agreed he'd take in the car for repair)

Would a judge not consider facts like that? Like an individual would not sell a car with warranty? He responded to my query I posted on motors.co.uk. I feel he's not looking to make it look like a private sale but deny responsibility on the fault.

Thank you.

[Pezza54]

The court has to issue a claim for the defendant to acknowledge service and state they intend to defend it (not the LBA) To start a court claim the court fee is £205 for a total claim amount £3k to £5k

It is not a dealership warranty. The seller acted as a third party creating a contract between you and HP.
You could have purchased your warranty direct with HP

You can't be sure what the seller is intending to do until you start a court claim. Not conducting the sale at his business premises, asking for a bank transfer to a personal account and telling you that an invoice is not required as the purchase price was under £3k, all sounds suspicious

[Daniel79]

Hi there,

I am going forward with the claim. I believe there are enough evidences in our conversations that even though a written contract does not exist, I can prove it was sold through the dealer. I have drafted a letter of rejection if you could kindly review and suggest any changes.


To
XXXXX

Letter Rejecting purchased car Hyundai I20 Reg - XXXX

On 11 April 2024, I left an enquiry on the ad posted by you, XXXXX Car Sales (Independent Dealer) on motors.co.uk, a car advertising platform. On the same day, you responded to my query and on 12 April 2024, I purchased and took delivery of the above vehicle Hyundai I20 from you for £ 2,700. I appreciate the fact that it was a free delivery even though you messaged me earlier saying " We usually charge customers for delivery"

On 10^th May 2024, I discovered an issue with the vehicle when the vehicle was driven on motorway for the first time. The vehicle’s engine overheats and suffers from coolant loss whenever it is driven for an extended period, for example anywhere over 30 minutes-45 minutes on high speed. The fault was impossible to detect during the viewing of the car since it was not checked on motorways. The car had only done approximately 1,550 miles under me until that point.

On 20^th May, I contacted the warranty company who requested a diagnosis report of the fault. I contacted you to find me a suitable garage for the diagnosis. You responded to me saying “I’m just waiting for somebody to give me a call back to see if they will take the job” but did not book me any mechanic. The car developed issues with transmission in the next few days and could not be driven. On 28^th May 2024, I booked a diagnosis through clickmechanic.com for £109.09. I received a quote of £735.91 for radiator fan replacement, clutch replacement cover and release bearing/CSC, gearbox oil (top up) and rear wheel bearing kit (driver side).

After receiving the diagnostic, I messaged you on 28^th May 2024 at 13:25. You called me back on 13:29. The conversation lasted for 10 minutes where I told you how the warranty limit was only £350 and only 50% of repair costs net of VAT would be borne by the warranty company for cars over 90,000 miles, which meant the warranty was unable to cover me for the full repair cost. You agreed to book in a repair for 3^rd June 2024. I later messaged you on 16:33 to say the heating issue should be borne by you as it was not a normal heating issue. You called me on 16:34 ( 8 minute call) where you first disagreed, but later reluctantly agreed to bear the heating related repair cost.

The booking was later rescheduled for 7^th June 2024. I called my recovery ,2gether Insurance and got the vehicle delivered to the dealer booked mechanic. On 8^th June at 16:57, you called me to say the vehicle is ready for collection. You told the heating issue has been taken care of and I was charged £260 for clutch replacement. The mechanic demanded cash, which I paid by withdrawing from nearby Lloyds cash machine. I wasn’t provided an invoice as the garage was almost closing and you told me invoice would be provided later.

On 20^th June 2024, I messaged you again with a video and message of the heating issue reoccurring to which you failed to respond. After multiple calls and messages, you finally responded on 24^th June 2024. Your response of “ I’ll buy your car back subject to inspection and money will be knocked off for any issues which was not there when given to yourself as well as the mileage you have done. Feel free to bring it down” is not acceptable to me as the heating issue was already present on the car which was only detected when the car was first taken for a long drive. So, your proposal is not a suitable outcome for me.

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 requires dealers to supply goods that are fit for purpose, as described and of satisfactory quality. However, the vehicle which frequently overheats and loses coolant is not of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose, even after considering the car’s mileage. Also, it was advertised with a 12-month MOT as can been seen in the now deleted listing. However, it was only recently that I checked and found only a 6-months MOT was provided during purchase. Hence, the car is not as described in the advert.

I am legally entitled to ask that you repair or replace this vehicle at no further cost to me. You already had an opportunity to repair the vehicle and the problem persists. Therefore, I am rejecting the car and I expect to be reimbursed:

The original purchase price of £2,700.00.
Diagnosis costs of £109.09

I am not claiming the cost of £260.00 paid by me on 8^th June for clutch replacement as the clutch issue was informed to me during purchase and I believe it to be a part of wear and tear.

Please reply to this letter within 14 days stating whether you intend to refund the money I have paid to date. If you fail to reply, or I am not satisfied with your offered solution, I have no alternative but to issue a claim against you in the county court for recovery of the money and costs incurred without further reference to you.


Also, in another message , he admitted recording our calls. I have drafted a different letter for that one too as the call was recorded without any warning or consent.

To
XXXXX

Unauthorized recording of phone call

On a message sent by you on 24^th June 2024, you admitted on recording our telephone conversations without my consent. This is a violation of my privacy and data rights. Your message on the same day saying “All our phone calls are recorded for training and monitoring purposes” is not acceptable to me as there was no message/pre-warning during the start of the call that the call would be recorded.

I demand that you immediately delete any and all recordings of our conversation. Furthermore, I require your written assurance within 14 days after the receipt of the letter that:

1. All recordings have been permanently deleted
2. No copies have been retained in any form
3. The recording has not been shared with any third parties

If I do not receive satisfactory written assurance within 14 days after the receipt of this letter, I will consider further legal action.

With Regards,
XXXXXX
(my contact details)

Thank you and sorry for the long post.

[Pezza54]

First paragraph;
You may wish to say how you paid for the car after the dealer requested payment to his personal bank account

Second paragraph last sentence:
" I had only driven approximately 1500 miles when the overheating fault occurred"

When the dealer said the overheating fault had been fixed, did he say what work the garage had done to fix it?

[Daniel79]

Hi, Thank you for your reply.

When the dealer said the overheating fault had been fixed, did he say what work the garage had done to fix it?[/QUOTE]

Yes. He said there was fault in temperature sensor that meant the fan didn't work properly. In one of the messages, he said " I have changed the temperature sensors for you although after that much mileage I didn’t have to. "

[Daniel79]

Posted the letters today and the guy messaged me saying the letters won’t be received. Here’s what he wrote:

“ Hi,

In response to your allegation, this vehicle was sold to yourself with a faulty clutch of in which was clarified to yourself before the purchase hence-why the vehicle was delivered to your home address of in which the remainder of balance was not paid in full

Before purchase, I did offer to recommend an approved mechanics garage with a reasonable price to get your repairs done. You had agreed to pay for repairs. The clutch was replaced by yourself as well as the temperature sensor. Upon diagnosis there was no issues with the vehicle and you have taken the vehicle whilst giving thanks to myself for helping out which are on CCTV. As the work was agreed you would do and I would recommend a garage to do so forth I would not be able to pay for you this.

Days following this, you have given a call to myself in regards to purchasing a car on finance and whether this is something which can be done. You have told myself that you are in the process of getting agreed by your bank in order to purchase a vehicle. You did not want to go down the car finance route as you are new to this country and they would want 3 years backlog. All calls are recorded for training and monitoring purposes as stated. You then went on to ask how much money you would get for your car considering you have driven 3,000 miles of in which I advised to see how much webuyanycar will offer you.

On the Monday, you have called myself and said you want to return the vehicle as you don’t want it no more. Unfortunately, things don’t work this way. As a gesture of goodness, I have offered to inspect your vehicle and any deductions made for deflects and mileage considered to purchase your vehicle back.

Legal action can be considered as the courts will look at both sides of this and I have evidence of in which you want to get out of this car and into a new vehicle as you would be approved by the bank. This evidence will not be erased or deleted as none of this is against the law

Any further information you may need, feel free to ask.

Kind Regards. “


What should I do next? Wait 14 days or proceed straight away with LBA since he says he’s not receiving the letter. When he says he offered to take vehicle back post inspection he was trying to pin the heating issue on me which isn’t acceptable. Also, I’m afraid he might take in the vehicle and do certain things to show I have damaged the car in other ways.

Thanks you.

[Pezza54]

Best to follow pre-action protocol and wait 14 days

[Daniel79]

Hi,

I’ve had no response to the signed for letter and there are no updates yet in the Royal Mail app when I track the reference number. I think the letters are on the way back to me. The dealer has stopped responding to me.

Called Citizens Advice and they’ve told me to send a non-signed for first class post and wait 14 days. Is that guidance correct?

Also, the dealer seems to be implying I didn’t pay him in full. Was paid £2000 bank trf and £700 cash. £700 cash was paid in front of witness who lent me the money. Witness is a relative who was immediately paid back to her bank when the internet banking worked again. Will the judge entertain a relative’s witness coupled with bank records? Will judge take account of the fact that the car was listed for £2950 and when I enquired through the website, he messaged me saying the best he can do is £2750?

Also, is the witness statement enough or witness has to travel to court? What happens after LBA? What if he refuses to receive LBA too?

Thank you.

[Daniel79]

An update:

Received a mail from warranty company. It says :

“Your current dealership-issued warranty cover will expire in 7 days. As your warranty administrator, we can give you the option of extending this cover for a further 12 months. You can click the link below to view your warranty extension options.”

Does it help? Also I called them to ask them what was the value of the vehicle declared and they said £2700.

[Pezza54]

Who replaced the temperature sensor?
Post 20 states the dealer replaced the temperature sensor. Post 21 para 3 states you arranged replacement of the temperature sensor.
Your mechanic thought the fan was faulty, charged you a diagnostic fee, and was prepared to charge you again to replace a working fan. You should take this up with your mechanic and ask for your fee back. It does sound as if the head gasket has blown which would involve significant labour cost to repair
CAB is right, you should send the LBA again first class post and obtain a receipt of postage. Proof of postage to the correct address is the evidence the court requires. Then wait 14 days for a reply in accordance with pre-action protocol
If the dealer fails to reply you can consider starting a court claim. Personally I think your claim is weak but in the end it is your decision whether to go ahead
Your witness would have to write a witness statement in her own words, sign it with a statement of truth, turn up for the hearing and be prepared to be cross examined by the defendant
I am not convinced that the value of the vehicle declared to HP proves anything. Was your witness present when the "agreed" price of £2700 was paid. The dealer previously stated the lowest price he could agree to was £2750

[Daniel79]

When the mechanic I booked through ClickMechanic diagnosed a faulty radiator fan, I talked to the dealer who said he can fix it for lower price. The clutch was gone too at that point. Had to call recovery. Left the car for a day. Next day, I was called to pick up the car. He said he “fixed” the sensor. No problem with fan. I paid for the clutch.

So he has made two contradictory statements in his message to me. In one, he says “I fixed the temperature sensor for you.”. In another, he says “ you fixed the temp sensor and clutch yourself. Everything was fine when we checked.”

He claims only £2000 was paid. My relative witnessed us paying him £700. In the worst case scenario, if the judge isn’t convinced about the £700 payment, I’m happy to settle for £2000- deductions if it indeed is a blown head gasket. I ****ed up badly but I don’t want to go down without a fight.

I have made a complaint to the ICO regarding the recorded phone call. If he fails to comply, can I add to my claim for breaching my privacy?

[Pezza54]

Non-consensual covert audio recording is admissible evidence in court although the judge can decide to exclude it. Hopefully you didn't say anything that may adversely affect your claim
Your claim would be stronger if you can prove that the car had a blown head gasket at the time of sale. Are you able to obtain an auto engineer's report that states this?
If it turns out the head gasket was blown this is not something you could have discovered on a short test drive or inspection before you bought the car. This is where the consumer has the advantage over the dealer under CRA. The dealer would have to prove the head gasket was fine when he sold the car. A valid MOT does not prove this

[Daniel79]

I’ve booked in a local service centre which has a good reputation for a diagnosis this coming Monday. Does it have to be an auto engineer? Or a report from a service centre would do?

I could sell this privately and maybe can get the same amount that I’ll potentially get from court if the cash payment of £700 is not established but it’s wrong to pass this car to anyone else and I want the dealer to be accountable for it.

I’ll see what they say on Tuesday.

[Pezza54]

Did you ask the service centre whether they can definitely diagnose a blowing head gasket? If their answer is "we can only say it is probably a blown head gasket" then you are wasting your time and money

[Daniel79]

I told them I need to get the heating issue diagnosed. I'll ask them if they can definitely diagnose if it's a blowing head gasket. Thank you.

I was amazed to find out someone can record call like this without any prior notice or consent. Had I known that, I would have recorded every single call with him that would have cleared all the issues.

Lastly, what is the worst thing that can happen if I lose ? I'll lose the court money, but I am on low income so I can get waiver with that I think. What else do I need to pay for?