Major issue with used car within 6 months!

[JChins]

Hi everyone.

I signed up here as I read a few threads about people having issues with used cars from dealers and I liked the sensible and factual responses people were getting. So let me tell, you up to date, my story so far and see what you guys think, so hop on board....


13th August 23: Purchased a 10 year old, 100K mile Audi Q5 from a reputable but small dealer about 100 miles away from mine for around £10000. Took the car then and there but only after a good correspondence with the dealer before viewing, pictures sent, HPI checked, test driven, negotiated a deal etc etc... All the normal stuff (bought it using a debit card).

The car was in good condition for the age and mileage, drove nice, good history and the dealer has 5* reviews and being honest, generally a very nice man that seemed to have my best interests at heart. Everyone's happy so far.

Partner used the car for normal baby duties for 2000 miles and just used it as you would expect up until the other day....

20th November 23: When we got a dreaded "Low Oil Pressure. STOP NOW!".

Now, let me tell you something. Rewind to...

4th August 23: In the paperwork of the cars history, on this date, it has an invoice from an independent garage to the car dealer that says it had cambelt kit, clutch and dual mass flywheel, OIL PUMP and a few other bits like oil and filter and what not. Totalling around £2500.

This work was of course carried out to get it ready for sale and I guess that's just how it works in the industry.

Now let's come back to present day...
When the car flashed up this low oil pressure warning I was fortunate enough to have only just started it on the driveway and luckily it wasn't the Mrs with the babe in the car on a motorway.
So, I turned the engine straight off.

I know what you're thinking ah that will just be a sensor nothing to worry about...

I didn't jump the gun, I just asked a local mechanic to come over and get his thoughts and do a few checks so he checked the oil level, took off the oil filter and the pressure sensor itself which were all okay to look at. He then plumbed in an oil gauge, started the car up and indeed it has NO oil pressure at the test point whatsoever. Turned it straight off again.

So I called the dealer to explain and he said that's a shame mate sorry to hear that, let me see what I can do. So he said he would charge me £250 to pick it up next week. So BTW I'm still in possession of the car.

In the meantime I'm thinking well the Mrs needs a car, he doesn't want the hassle of me ringing him up every 5 minutes asking if the car is fixed (if it can be fixed) and if it does get fixed how long is it going to last.

So I said to him in a later phone call, you've got a Ford Kuga for sale, why don't you give us all the money back for the Q5 and we will buy the Kuga off you. That way, we as the consumer are happy, you don't have to rush to get the Q5 fixed or you can sort out with the mechanic that done the previous oil pump type jobs why it's gone wrong and maybe claim back your own losses from him!

So, he said a full refund is absolutely out of the question but he would give me trade value for the Q5 which is about half what I paid for it 3 months ago haha! To which I replied no thankyou.
He also said that because I didn't report the fault within 90 days anything they help me with is essentially a favour. I replied, I take it you haven't read the Consumer Rights Act.

I'm fully aware he has offered to collect the car, look at the car and potentially fix it but we are talking about an engine with no oil pressure here. Hence why I merely asked to speed the process up would he offer a full refund or swap for a car he's selling. Also, I am happy for him to fix the car if that's possible but if it even gives me a slight problem that could be related il be bringing it straight back anyway for a refund.

I explained it to him as there's 3 parties involved, me, him and his mechanic, none of us need the stress or hassle so why not just do the right thing and let me be on my merry way because it's not my fault the car has no oil pressure and 2000 miles is bugger all anyway.

So we have left it as he is going to have the car collected next week but in the meantime he is going to think about and discuss with his business partner about a potential full to almost full refund subject to fair usage.

Being honest we have lost faith in the car and even if it gets fixed I wouldn't have much confidence in it but I do appreciate that if that does happen he would be fulfilling his duties by repairing it.

Have you guys got any advice going forward, anyone looking for a story to sink their teeth into, or have you had any success with this sort of thing...

Thanks.

[Pezza54]

Hi
Under CRA 2015, in your case, you are entitled to a full refund, free repair or replacement. It is your choice. It is the dealer's responsibility to collect the car and pay for transport.
In the event you end up making a court claim, you should keep all receipts for alternative transport for the period you are unable to use the Q5.
Make sure the dealer is aware that you know your full rights under CRA and are having to fund alternative transport and will seek recompense for this if you have to start a court claim.
You said the dealer has excellent reviews, was friendly and helpful.
Hopefully he will see sense and you both are able reach an agreeable arrangement.

[Pezza54]

Sorry got the dates wrong. You reported the fault after 30 days, so you have to give the dealer one chance to repair it, which you are doing.

[Pezza54]

The dealer must repair the car within a reasonable time without causing you significant inconvenience, otherwise you can reject the car. You can also reject the car if when it is returned the fault has not been repaired, the same fault recurs or another serious fault develops within 6 months of delivery plus waiting time.

[JChins]

Pezza54 thanks very much for taking the time to read through all that. I appreciate the input and hopefully will have more updates soon.

[JChins]

So, the car is being recovered today by the dealer.
I've done a lot of research on where I stand in regards to the CRA but it's not quite clear at what point I need to make them aware I'm exercising my Final Right to Reject.

As all the things regarding the "One attempt to repair" is under the "Final Right to Reject".

So should I be letting them know today that that's what I am indeed doing before they attempt to repair it?

Also, I feel as if I'm in a bit of a grey area where if I don't say anything will he ring me next week and say "yep we have found the fault, it's going to cost you this much, but we will go halves with you as a good will gesture". And then I've got an invoice with my name attached to it.

So just trying to gauge at what point you actually make them aware you are making an attempt to reject the vehicle under the CRA.

Thanks again guys.

[Pezza54]

No you can't reject the car yet. You have to give the dealer a chance to repair the fault. You should not pay anything and the dealer should not charge for collecting the car.
You have to allow him a reasonable amount of time. Unfortunately the CRA doesn't state what is a reasonable amount of time. The time can depend on the availability of parts, so be prepared to chase the dealer.
If you do end up rejecting the car the dealer is allowed to make a reduction on the refund for the 2k miles driven using the car.

[JChins]

Update:
The dealer had the car collected last week at a sum of £250.
I paid this as I was running out of time and Citizens Advice actually told me that was my responsibility so I just paid it anyway.

I've been in contact with the dealer this week and they informed me the car had been looked at and they found excess carbon build up in the oil pick up pipe so they told me they could repair it by replacing the pick up pipe, doing an engine flush and carbon clean.

I agreed to collect the car tomorrow (tues 5th dec).
But today I've just got a message saying the invoice is £300 for the repair and I've got to pay it as it's not related to the work they had previously done when they came into possession of the car before they sold it.

Of course il refuse to pay the bill but any advice going forward now?

[Pezza54]

What the dealer is saying (your penultimate paragraph) is rubbish. The goods must conform to the contract and it has nothing to do with any previous repair.
You should not pay any more money and you could point out that you agreed to pay for transport although you weren't legally bound to do so.
CRA 2015 Section 23 (2) where a consumer requires a trader to repair the goods
(2)(b) the trader shall bear any necessary costs incurred in doing so

How can you be sure that the dealer has repaired the fault. If you pay the £300 and the fault is still present or recurs a few days or weeks later you will have spent £550 on a car that you would be legally entitled to reject.
.

[JChins]

Good advice and thankyou.

After a few messages and back and forward with the dealer today they said they were seeking advice from a legal company called Lawgistics and were waiting on advice. Then they would let me know an answer on it (I don't believe they actually know the CRA or they are choosing to ignore it).

I received a phone call a few hours later from the dealer saying they would cover the cost of repair.

So I wonder what advice this Lawgistics gave them. Hmm.

So, collecting the car tomorrow and will see how that goes and monitor how long the car lasts! Got to stay optimistic I guess. Fingers crossed.

[Pezza54]

Some good news then.
You'll have to provide forum readers with monthly up dates, if the car remains faultless for that long!