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Finance company terminate agreement but report car stolen

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  • Finance company terminate agreement but report car stolen

    Hi

    Son purchased a car on finance May 2022.
    Everything going ok until April this year when the car developed yet another fault and ended up off the road resulting in him losing his job as couldn't get there.
    End of April son went self employed but missed May's payment. A default notice was sent giving 14 days to pay. Son missed the payment date (27th June) as hadn't received any income yet. The day after the payment was due a termination notice was sent, by the time he got the termination notice he owed 2 months payments.
    We contacted the finance company and explained he was waiting for money to come in and the outstanding amount would be paid within the week.
    The very unhelpful woman on the phone said she couldn't make a payment arrangement unless she could have access to his bank account via open banking to see if he was telling the truth !
    I said I would ask son and call her the next day.
    Son said no to open banking but was happy to provide a copy of his bank account statement. Woman refused bank account statement and then said there would be £300 costs added as a repossession fee and he now needed to pay the 2 outstanding payments plus the £300 or the termination notice stood.
    I requested a copy of the credit agreement and an up to date statement and requested she put a hold on everything until I had been through the documents, to which she agreed .After going through it all i found that he had paid more than one third already and the finance company would need a court order to repossess the car.
    Next day he had text message from vehicle collection agents requesting a time to collect the car.
    Following that son made the missing payments but finance company still instructed collection agents to repossess the vehicle.
    I contacted repossession agents to inform them the company did not have a court order nor did son voluntary surrender the car. Repo agents ceased contact.
    Various emails to company informing them of their mistakes and refusing to pay the £300. Emails from company then ceased.
    Then yet another 'default notice' and termination notice for August payment. Payment wasn't made as finance company hadn't reduced the balance owing by the 2 payments made in June only one had been taken off.
    Phone call to finance company asking them to deduct the payment they hadn't done to be told it had been deducted and the balance owing was due to £300 they had added for the repossession agent (who didn't and couldn't legally collect the car)
    Yet another termination notice (in Sept) via email this time stating they were going to apply for a court order. By this point son had had enough and was preparing to go to court but payment had been made.
    Finance company used the payment made in September for August's payment so in effect owed one payment for September.
    Balance owing still not corrected .
    Yet another 'default notice' in October for September payment and another email stating they had terminated the agreement and would be getting a court order.
    Son decided this was probably the best way so was waiting for the court papers to arrive but then got a phone call from the police telling him the finance company had reported the car stolen.
    Told the police it isn't stolen, son has possession of it and it's at the address on the credit agreement and that we were waiting for court papers from the finance company for them to attempt to repossess it . We provided police with all the documentation but then had a response that the investigation was closed but the car would remain on the database as stolen. The finance company are using the police to repossess the car rather than going through the courts.
    Apologies for the long post ..... Help & ideas for a way forward as the police won't take it off the database as stolen and the finance company haven't filed court papers.
    Son can't drive the car without the risk of getting arrested and the car being returned to the finance company but the finance company won't get the car if he doesn't get stopped in it.



    Tags: None

  • #2
    I'm not offering any helpful advice but I don't understand how the police can have closed the investigation but the car remain on their database as stolen?

    Also I don't see why the car is at any more risk of being repossessed (or your son of being arrested) if he drives it rather than it remain wherever it is?

    If the police could arrest him for driving a "stolen" car, why can't they arrest him now just for having it in his possession? Either the car is stolen or it isn't. What difference does driving it make?

    Has your son complained to the police?

    As I say - I can't be of any more help.

    (PS - I'm very surprised that the police should have involved themselves in what is just a civil matter. They should be chasing the finance company for wasting police time if the finance company has no legal right to repossess it without a court order)

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Manxman

      Yes, we complained to the police and even gave them all the documentation to show a court order was needed and that we were waiting for the court papers. That's when they said the investigation was closed ( as it was a civil matter) but then said it would remain on the database as stolen because the finance company, who are the legal owners have said son doesn't have the car with their permission.

      This appears to be a possible loophole ?

      Comment


      • #4
        OK. They must be saying that if your son drives it they will treat it as a "taking a motor vehicle without consent of the owner" (aka "TWOC")

        For legal reasons I won't go into the concepts of "theft" and "stolen" are difficult to apply to cars so s12 of the Theft Act 1968 (legislation.gov.uk) created the new offence of "TWOC"

        Apparently the offence of TWOC requires an element of taking, which in turn apparently requires movement. So I suspect the police are saying your son is committing no offence by possessing the car, but as soon as he drives it, he is committing an offence.

        Fom what I can see, if he was hiring the car or buying it under a hire-purchase agreement then he might have a defence under s12(7)(b) of the Act, but that isn't the case here - or is it? What sort of agreement does he have with the finance company?

        I'm not a lawyer so I can't give you legal advice - I'm only trying to help you understand better what the situation is

        I'd suggest your son speak to CAB for advice about the civil legal position regarding possible re-possession of the car. They might also be able to advise on the criminal TWOC position, or your son might want to speak to a solicitor specialising in criminal law and motoring offences. Some firms will offer 30 minutes free legal advice. CAB might be able to tell you if any are local to you.

        See if you get any other suggestions here.

        Good luck to your son...

        (More info here: Taking without owner's consent - Wikipedia )

        Comment


        • #5
          meluca - regarding the possibility of your son being guilty of twoccing if he drives the car, you might want also to think about asking for advice on a couple of other forums that deal with criminal motoring offences

          FightBack Forums -> Speeding and other Criminal Offences (pepipoo.com) if you go to this one don't register with a Hotmail address

          and/or

          Speeding and other criminal offences (ftla.uk)

          Comment


          • #6
            EXC and echat11 - I've just tried twice to post links to two sites that might be of help to meluca regarding his son's position re criminal liability, but - and this is now the third occasion on which this has happened to me - this site has blocked the posts.

            ​​​​​​​Can the posts be authorised so the OP can see them? (On the first two occasions they were authorised too late to be of help)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Manxman View Post
              EXC and echat11 - I've just tried twice to post links to two sites that might be of help to meluca regarding his son's position re criminal liability, but - and this is now the third occasion on which this has happened to me - this site has blocked the posts.

              ​​​​​​​Can the posts be authorised so the OP can see them? (On the first two occasions they were authorised too late to be of help)
              It's our over-enthusiastic spam filter I'm afraid. I've reinstated your first post.

              Comment


              • #8
                Manxman - I appreciate all your advice, thank you.

                After speaking with the police again they have now taken the car from outside the house .

                They were sympathetic to the situation but apparently couldn't get round getting it off the database. The one thing they have done is to put a stipulation on the finance company having to prove they are the legal owners before taking possession of the car.

                Pretty sure they can't do that as soon has paid over a third and the required a court order to repossess.

                Now to find a solicitor to sue the f***ers.

                Comment


                • #9
                  OK. Try CAB for advice. And ask them if there are any "free 30 minutes" solicitors around where you live that might help

                  Good luck

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by EXC View Post

                    It's our over-enthusiastic spam filter I'm afraid. I've reinstated your first post.
                    Thanks

                    Comment

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