Car dealer still refusing my request to reject car for a full refund after LBA

[KML08]

Hi all,

I bought a car for £9,000 from a trader/ dealer on Saturday 18th March 2023 and after collecting keys, discovered various issues including dead battery (waited 1hr to be fixed), scuff on rear nearside door, poor previous bodywork repair to rear nearside door sill and a grinding/ screeching noise from front wheels. This was raised to the trader at the time as was not happy, he suggested it can be sorted out local to me before shooting off to collect new battery. After discovering the grinding noise whilst going to fill up fuel for the journey home, I returned to the store to get it checked by a mechanic but was dismissed as they're too busy. Looked and waited for the senior manager for resolution but he vanished after sorting out the battery. Sales just advised to drive back home (45 mile journey) and if still not happy then bring back to my local store to resolve.

Took car to a manufacturer approved body shop to confirm previous repair issue to door sill was a poor standard and not a recommended method (used grommets to plug drilled holes in the bodywork) which will lead to rust and decrease the car value, body shop quoted over £3k to repair . Requested to reject car for a full refund on Tuesday 21st March 2023 as not of satisfactory quality and not as described – they did not declare the door bodywork issues at sale and not obvious to the untrained eye at viewing, was constantly reassured by the ‘114-point check’, was in immaculate condition and not been previously repaired from an accident.

27th March 2023 - I have sent them all the photos of the door issue and the email/ quote from the approved body shop of their assessment and that I want a refund.

6th April 2023 - sent letter before court action as no response. The day after, the senior manager is insisting on me bringing in the car to diagnose the 'major fault' and still rejecting the bodywork issue as cosmetic. I again pushed back that this is not of satisfactory quality and not as described at sale so want a refund.

Their reply was that as I drove off their premises then I accepted the issues I raised when they could’ve undone the deal quickly and easily. Sounds like they are admitting to the issues, but I was not given the choice to reject at the time and no one would help, just told to go home. I proved the issue first with experts before requesting a refund 2 days after, within 30 days, I felt I needed to do this with some sort of evidence before rejecting.

They have sent their final response still offering to repair and they need to diagnose a major fault first before refund, they also offered ADR – National Conciliation Service (NCS) which I'm not keen on as I've read they are subscribed to them and read reviews of bias.

I feel like they are palming me off with all sorts of excuses, firstly said it was a cosmetic issue and that I was aware of before collection. I wasn't but they are saying that once I drive off that is classed as collection. I was not happy with all the issues and wanted to agree a resolution but no one could help me and I was just told to go home and sort out after. It felt like I had to prove to them this door issue is not of satisfactory quality, even if I tried rejecting the car after collection, they may have used the same cosmetic response. No mechanic could come out to diagnose the grinding noise issue and this is all after spending over 5 hours at their store collecting the car. I don't think I've been unreasonable to reject the car?

I paid in full by debit card. The car has only been driven 70 miles and is parked in my driveway since collecting, other than the trips to garage.

Also the car was sold with all brake pads/ discs replaced in the service sheet but the front brake pads are 50% worn. In the Autotrader advert, it said 1 previous owner but actually had 2.

A few questions:

- Is a 'major fault' needed to reject the car as they have stated? I don't see anything about major faults in CRA 2015.
- I haven't had an independent inspection carried out - do I need one and who do you recommend?
- What are my next steps to claim a full refund?

Many thanks in advance

[Mr Me]

The trader sounds like they are doing what they can to rectify the issue. You want to return for a full refund, they want to fix the issues. I would imagine a small claims judge (having been there myself for a similar reason) would frown heavily on the fact you have rejected their offer to fix and rejected NCS. Rejecting NCS is a large thing against you and you should reconsider this even if you do not accept the outcome, it shows you have tried all avenues to alleviate the situation.

I wouldn't have thought they would be required to know the in depth details of the repair, other than inspection by eye. Brake pads is a non starter as potentially owners. Buyer beware and you could have looked at this online before buying. Playing devils advocate but this is what the judge will do, look at both of you and see who is being unreasonable. Not going to go into what you should have done, as this is annoying for you to read and not helpful to you now. ADR and giving them the chance to rectify the faults themselves are a must before you file the claim.

[KML08]

The trader sounds like they are doing what they can to rectify the issue. You want to return for a full refund, they want to fix the issues. I would imagine a small claims judge (having been there myself for a similar reason) would frown heavily on the fact you have rejected their offer to fix and rejected NCS. Rejecting NCS is a large thing against you and you should reconsider this even if you do not accept the outcome, it shows you have tried all avenues to alleviate the situation.

I wouldn't have thought they would be required to know the in depth details of the repair, other than inspection by eye. Brake pads is a non starter as potentially owners. Buyer beware and you could have looked at this online before buying. Playing devils advocate but this is what the judge will do, look at both of you and see who is being unreasonable. Not going to go into what you should have done, as this is annoying for you to read and not helpful to you now. ADR and giving them the chance to rectify the faults themselves are a must before you file the claim.

Thanks for the honest reply.

Just to add I had the noise diagnosed and its due to rust inside the front brake discs which also don't seem to have been replaced and is rubbing against the calliper. Have been advised both front discs will need replacing.

I will take this to the trader and see what they say - would it be reasonable to suggest the bodywork repair be done at an manufacturer approved body shop if I were to accept their offer to repair? Assume the brake discs and pads which were not as described are both non-starters?

Apologies, do you mind if I ask the outcome of small claims court you mentioned?

Thanks

[Mr Me]

Thanks for the honest reply.

Just to add I had the noise diagnosed and its due to rust inside the front brake discs which also don't seem to have been replaced and is rubbing against the calliper. Have been advised both front discs will need replacing.

I will take this to the trader and see what they say - would it be reasonable to suggest the bodywork repair be done at an manufacturer approved body shop if I were to accept their offer to repair? Assume the brake discs and pads which were not as described are both non-starters?

Apologies, do you mind if I ask the outcome of small claims court you mentioned?

Thanks

Brakes not working is one thing, but not as described, unless it's a new car or was sold with new brakes then that's a weak argument.

I lost my court appearance mainly due to blinding arrogance that I was in the right and that I was protected as a consumer. Very tough with used cars I would imagine vs the law. I would take the high road, allow them the chance to fix themselves and move on with life. I don't think you can argue that the repair has to be done by a main dealer/approved one if they are set up to fix it themselves. They probably send it away to someone else, so maybe just ask for update pictures to be taken so you don't end up in the same position.

Personally, I would get them to do the brakes and bodywork and that will be that. Won't go well in small claims (i.e you'll probably lose) if you've not allowed them all possible opportunities to fix the issue(s)

[des8]

Have you considered applying to your debit card issuer for a chargeback?

[KML08]

Many thanks both for your replies - it is very much appreciated. I've been researching my options for the last month or so as all this legal stuff is new to me.

I've briefly looked into a chargeback which was also advised by CAB but I assumed it's not an option as I expect kickback from the trader (they have to accept the chargeback?) and read it's a long process.

I am thinking of taking the car in to the trader this week to let them have a look at the issues I've raised and see what they say about a refund. If not, I'll assess my options before agreeing to any repair plan they offer.

Any other thoughts/ advice on next steps? Is it worth applying for a chargeback?

Thanks

[des8]

You rejected the vehicle, and then sent a LBA.... so I would act on that and initiate court action as I would not send a LBA without the intention of following through.
However small claims court is always a bit of a lottery!

You could withhold action and give the dealer the chance to bring the vehicle to a satisfactory condition. If he fails you could continue with your action to reject as the short term right has been suspended from the time you reported the problems and only restarts when the vehicle is returned to you after repair... Have the repairs independently assessed afterwards.

Advantage of chargeback is that it is free, and quicker than court

[KML08]

You rejected the vehicle, and then sent a LBA.... so I would act on that and initiate court action as I would not send a LBA without the intention of following through.
However small claims court is always a bit of a lottery!

You could withhold action and give the dealer the chance to bring the vehicle to a satisfactory condition. If he fails you could continue with your action to reject as the short term right has been suspended from the time you reported the problems and only restarts when the vehicle is returned to you after repair... Have the repairs independently assessed afterwards.

Advantage of chargeback is that it is free, and quicker than court

It's a difficult one... I guess I was very hopeful the LBA would 'scare' them to refund me, but they just became responsive and stuck to their guns. The risk of being more out of pocket with a £455 court fee for a 50/50 small claims case is pretty depressing. Ideally would need sufficient evidence and have tried to resolve with trader first to be more confident of the case.

I'll try take the car to the local store this week for resolution, it's a different store to the one I bought from so may be more willing to help (they may have been filled in by the other store already). I will update here once I know more. Then perhaps claim via chargeback.

In terms of independent assessment on repairs after, I assume this is paid - do you recommend a certain company or is Halfords sufficient (free)?

Thanks again

[Pezza54]

If you go down the chargeback or court route don't forget to take photos of the initial poor repair and the second repair at the time of inspection.

[des8]

I would look for an engineer accredited with The Institute of Automotive Engineer Assessors

[KML08]

Update:

I took the car to the local branch for diagnosis on 1st May and booked in the inspection for 10th May. Following the inspection, they can confirm the following repairs required:

- New front brake discs and pads required
- New rear back plates required
- Rear left door bodywork issues needs repair in body shop

I emailed the manager from the branch originally purchased from to authorise refund or repair locally but no response. I have sent a couple of chaser emails and called the customer service line and they said I will get a call back but to no avail. There’s no direct number to the branch.

Do I carry on waiting? Is it worth opening a chargeback claim?

Also could I claim via SCC a lower amount for repairs only? So won’t be the full £9k but enough to cover all repairs so lower legal fees.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks

[des8]

You could write yet again reminding them that you have now offered them the option of repair or rejection but if they don't respond you will follow through by having the work done elsewhere and then if necessary initiating court action to recover your costs.

If you purchased the car from a branch of a national company you could try a complaint to their head office/CEO. complete with a copy of your letter.

[KML08]

Thanks des8.

I emailed them yesterday to remind I have given them the option of repair or rejection and to respond with authorisation for either repair/ rejection at the local branch by 25th May (given them 14 days after my diagnosis email). Otherwise I will go ahead and get repairs done myself and claim back costs.

The local branch have confirmed they cannot do any work without authorisation from the branch I purchased from.

Thoughts on winning court claim? They have previously insisted on repairs via email so I think at the very minimum the repair costs should be covered.

Many thanks again.

[des8]

IMO you have a good basis for a claim (but I do only have your version!) and county court can be a bit of a lottery

[KML08]

Update:

In the end as they wouldn't respond after a long time - I decided to leave a negative Google review and suddenly they responded within hours. They approved all repairs I listed and I even managed to get all four alloys refurbed! Although it took longer than expected, majority of repairs were complete to a decent standard. There are still the rear backing plates outstanding but this is due to a back order parts from the manufacturer, this will be done in due course. Many thanks for all your help everyone.