Dispute with trader - legal letters

[skybow]

Hi experts,
I am new to the forum and need your help on matter outlined below. I arranged an engineer to provide me with a quotation for a new boiler installation. The engineer visited the property and provided me the quotation and the next day I agreed to the cost over the phone. The visit to property was scheduled for engineer to carry out the work.

I called the engineer in the morning to confirm if he is coming at scheduled time so I can make relevant arrangements. My father was waiting in the property and the engineer, probably has been ringing the door bell and seeing no one opening the door the engineer left. Since my father did not see the engineer turning up and has been waiting for over 2 hours he informed me and I straight away called the engineer. He said he was at the property but no one opened the door. My question to him was why he did not call me as I wanted to ensure the job was done on time otherwise why I would make the arrangements and call him in the morning to schedule everything. He kept insisting that he has been to the property and it is my fault that we did not open the door. We are 100% sure the bell did not ring as my father was at the property. He left a generic leaflet in the post asking to reschedule the appointment.

I asked him to confirm the alternative day so the job can be carried out as with cold weather my family was falling ill and we desperately need the boiler working. He said he will confirm the date same day. I did not receive his text for rescheduled day till 3 days after (Christmas and weekend was in middle). The day he proposed I said can you please do the work earlier and he did not reply to me. After waiting for 2 days I dropped him a text saying as I am in desperate need of sorting the boiler out, my family is ill and I am not hearing back from you I am arranging another engineer to get the work done. He replied to me on text saying I accepted a quote, parts were ordered and he turned up on time and it is my fault that I was not there. He did not reply my second text because he was trying to reorganise the work. He will send me invoice for his 2 visits (first one was for quotation and was not chargeable anyway) and parts ordered. The invoice is payable in 7 days otherwise legal action will start without further warning.

I called him and tried to find a solution as I am still interested in boiler to be installed and willing to maintain my commitment. I also dropped him a text confirming this and he said he will issue invoice with all associated costs. He told me restrict any communication on text and gave his email as the matter will be going legal.

What is my position? I am trying to cooperate and he is not willing to listen and being very aggressive on phone. Where do I stand legally? We did not sign anything. Once I receive the invoice what shall I do?
Many thanks in advance if you can provide some help on this matter.
Apologies for long post but wanted to provide as much info as possible.

[Ripped-Off]

Firstly, I have a couple of questions:

1. When you accepted the quotation what arrangements were made as regards the date for the work to be carried out and how long did the engineer say the work would take to complete?
2. What, if anything, was recorded in writing in terms of price, specification, dates, payment terms etc?

Second, if the engineer left a leaflet on the day of the missed visit, then he must have been at your property otherwise how could he have left the leaflet? The only other alternative is that he came by with no intention of doing the work on that day and dropped the leaflet to make it look as if he had turned up to do the work. But why would he have done that? What did he have to gain from it?

Assuming he was at your property on the day he said he was and you failed to permit him to work, then by not answering the door, you have likely broken a term of the contract. You may have inadvertently cancelled the contract. If this is correct, he would become entitled to payment for his wasted time and associated losses incurred, perhaps his loss of profit too. However, the onus is on him to prove that he was there, not on you to prove that he wasn't. Did any of your neighbours see him?

The question that arises is whether this rearranged visit is a new contract or the same contract, performance of it being rendered at a different time. If it is a new contract, there would have to be evidence of its formation. Were the terms of this new contract agreed; maybe in the texts that you sent to him over the Xmas period. If it is the same contract, and the time for performance is an express term, then it may not be possible to render performance of it at a different time as this would be a fundamental change to a term of the original contract.

I suspect this new arrangement could be a new contract, but it may not exist at all. If it does exist then the engineer must provide the service within a reasonable time. Is the new date a reasonable time? If not, you could end this new contract without fault (but still remain liable for the losses on the original contract) or if there is no new contract then you can use an alternative provider without fault, but again you remain liable for the losses on the original contract.

The invoice you receive should be for the wasted visit, but this must be proven. It would be for one day's pay and travel costs etc assuming it was too late for him to make alternative arrangements to earn money elsewhere on that day. He may also include lost profits on the job but again these have to be proven. Do not pay it until you have had a full breakdown of the costs and are happy that they are genuine and reasonable.If parts are invoiced too, ask him why he has not delivered those parts to you. After all, you will own them if you are expected to pay for them. Ask him to provide invoices to prove the cost of the parts from the supplier he bought them from and check the cost on the internet to see if the price is reasonable. You could ask your alternative supplier if he can use them in your new installation.

Payment of the invoice within 7 days is not correct. It assumes you have accepted and agreed the value of it beforehand.

[skybow]

Firstly, I have a couple of questions:

1. When you accepted the quotation what arrangements were made as regards the date for the work to be carried out and how long did the engineer say the work would take to complete?
2. What, if anything, was recorded in writing in terms of price, specification, dates, payment terms etc?

Second, if the engineer left a leaflet on the day of the missed visit, then he must have been at your property otherwise how could he have left the leaflet? The only other alternative is that he came by with no intention of doing the work on that day and dropped the leaflet to make it look as if he had turned up to do the work. But why would he have done that? What did he have to gain from it?

Assuming he was at your property on the day he said he was and you failed to permit him to work, then by not answering the door, you have likely broken a term of the contract. You may have inadvertently cancelled the contract. If this is correct, he would become entitled to payment for his wasted time and associated losses incurred, perhaps his loss of profit too. However, the onus is on him to prove that he was there, not on you to prove that he wasn't. Did any of your neighbours see him?

The question that arises is whether this rearranged visit is a new contract or the same contract, performance of it being rendered at a different time. If it is a new contract, there would have to be evidence of its formation. Were the terms of this new contract agreed; maybe in the texts that you sent to him over the Xmas period. If it is the same contract, and the time for performance is an express term, then it may not be possible to render performance of it at a different time as this would be a fundamental change to a term of the original contract.

I suspect this new arrangement could be a new contract, but it may not exist at all. If it does exist then the engineer must provide the service within a reasonable time. Is the new date a reasonable time? If not, you could end this new contract without fault (but still remain liable for the losses on the original contract) or if there is no new contract then you can use an alternative provider without fault, but again you remain liable for the losses on the original contract.

The invoice you receive should be for the wasted visit, but this must be proven. It would be for one day's pay and travel costs etc assuming it was too late for him to make alternative arrangements to earn money elsewhere on that day. He may also include lost profits on the job but again these have to be proven. Do not pay it until you have had a full breakdown of the costs and are happy that they are genuine and reasonable.If parts are invoiced too, ask him why he has not delivered those parts to you. After all, you will own them if you are expected to pay for them. Ask him to provide invoices to prove the cost of the parts from the supplier he bought them from and check the cost on the internet to see if the price is reasonable. You could ask your alternative supplier if he can use them in your new installation.

Payment of the invoice within 7 days is not correct. It assumes you have accepted and agreed the value of it beforehand.

I highly appreciate your quick, detailed and very valuable response to my question.
In response to the questions:
1) I accepted the quotation over the phone and the engineer proposed initially he will be carrying out the work on Thursday. Then he rang me to change the day to Friday to which I agreed over the phone. On Friday I called him in the morning to ensure that he is coming at scheduled time so I can make the arrangements for his visits. Engineer specified it will take him till 4pm from 10am to finish the work.
2) There was nothing recorded in writing in terms of price, specification, dates, and payment terms.


Having seen the leaflet I do not dispute the fact that he has not been at the property. As I spoke to him in the morning I made sure at my end that my father was at the property to give him access as we were/are in desperate need of boiler. I am surprised/shocked that if he rang and no one opened the door and he did even tried to ring me on the phone. His day was booked from 10am to 4pm (till the work finished). He should have at least tried to drop text as he has done on his first visit. My question to him was why would I call him in the morning to arrange for the visit and then not open the door. Ultimately it was my first priority to get the boiler fixed.


The property is a flat I am not sure if any of the neighbour would have seen him or if there would be any camera recording (I certainly do not have cameras). But again he did not tried to contact me by any other reasonable means apart from ringing the bell (which I am surprised that my father would not have heard).

The time rescheduling for new visit was again proposed over the phone by engineer and he told me he will call and confirm to me on same day (it was Friday). But I did not hear back from him till 3 days later (accept there was Christmas in middle) when he proposed to fix the boiler on 4th Jan. To this proposal I requested him (again on text) "any chance to do earlier. You know the whether is bad and family is without heating and getting ill". I did not hear back on this text till this morning when I proposed that I am arranging another engineer now.

At the end I want/wanted to get the job done and was still open for him to visit and I will pay for his services. But he has been very aggressive and threatening. He is proposing 7 days payment based on his standard T&Cs which I never saw or was given. Everything was verbal apart from texts that I mentioned in my posts.

Would a simple generic printed leaflet in my post box suffice for engineer to prove that he has been at agreed time the flat? Should he not have tried to contact me to resolve the situation as it was my priority and I guess as it was his priority because why he wants to waste a day and not get paid for it?

I find it unfair to pay for a service which was not rendered and be responsible for lost day+profit+mileage when engineer should have taken reasonable steps to contact me. What are the implication if I do not pay this invoice?
Also engineer mentioned that he will be invoice for first visit also which was for him to make an assessment of the work required so he can provide me quote. At no stage engineer mentioned that he will charge me for this visit.

Thank you.

[dslippy]

If you engage someone to carry out works, then normally you engage them on a basis of a reasonable time to carry out the works. That period will normally be 28 days.

Sorry.

[skybow]

If you engage someone to carry out works, then normally you engage them on a basis of a reasonable time to carry out the works. That period will normally be 28 days.

Sorry.

Appreciate it. The urgency of service was key here in this commitment. As you can imagine it was painful to stay in very cold weather without heating due to drop in temperatures with my family falling ill.

May I request you to shed some light on my questions:

1. Would a simple generic printed leaflet in my post box suffice for engineer to prove that he has been at agreed time the flat? Should he not have tried to contact me to resolve the situation as it was my priority and I guess as it was his priority because why he wants to waste a day and not get paid for it?

2. What are the implication if I do not pay this invoice? Not that I want to be unfair but I cannot afford to pay for unreasonable expenses.

3. To resolve the dispute constructively if I propose the engineer to finish the work in response to his invoice/legal letter would this be an option for him to consider and for me to avoid unnecessary charges?

Thank you.

[Ripped-Off]

In reply

1. Would a simple generic printed leaflet in my post box suffice for engineer to prove that he has been at agreed time the flat? Should he not have tried to contact me to resolve the situation as it was my priority and I guess as it was his priority because why he wants to waste a day and not get paid for it?

In my opinion, the generic leaflet should be enough to show that the engineer was at your property unless you can explain how else the leaflet could have got there. It does not prove that he was there at the agreed time. However, it was must have been at some point before the discovery of the leaflet?

2. What are the implication if I do not pay this invoice? Not that I want to be unfair but I cannot afford to pay for unreasonable expenses.

This could go one of three ways and it depends on whether you believe you owe the money:

1. The engineer is willing to talk and negotiate an agreement.
2. The engineer issues a County Court claim against you for the money that he believes he is owed. On the balance of probabilities, if he can prove that he was at your address on the agreed day and he has evidence of a contract, then I suspect he would win his case for breach of contract. We could get into the technicalities of Contract Law and say that if you can prove there was no contract, he would have to contradict this with evidence. If there is no contract, then you have no obligation to pay. English law does not reward someone who voluntarily confers a benefit on another (Stovin v Wise, 1996 AC 923, p. 944 per Lord Hoffman). However, that is a long and complicated path. Too much for this answer.
3. The engineer resorts to violence which is often what uneducated and irrational people tend to adopt these days and will almost certainly end up involving the Police. I doubt you want this option unless you yourself prefer it.

3. To resolve the dispute constructively if I propose the engineer to finish the work in response to his invoice/legal letter would this be an option for him to consider and for me to avoid unnecessary charges?

It could. But whatever you agree, record it in writing (by text message if necessary) especially if he is willing to concede on the wasted costs in return for the whole contract. Again, not wanting to go to deeply into the law on Promissory Estoppel, this might help you, if it all turns sour.

If all else fails and he wants to go legal, just tell him that you will put him to strict proof on proving his costs. If he can't prove those costs with evidence then a court would be unlikely to award them to him..

[skybow]

In reply



In my opinion, the generic leaflet should be enough to show that the engineer was at your property unless you can explain how else the leaflet could have got there. It does not prove that he was there at the agreed time. However, it was must have been at some point before the discovery of the leaflet?

This could go one of three ways and it depends on whether you believe you owe the money:

1. The engineer is willing to talk and negotiate an agreement.
2. The engineer issues a County Court claim against you for the money that he believes he is owed. On the balance of probabilities, if he can prove that he was at your address on the agreed day and he has evidence of a contract, then I suspect he would win his case for breach of contract. We could get into the technicalities of Contract Law and say that if you can prove there was no contract, he would have to contradict this with evidence. If there is no contract, then you have no obligation to pay. English law does not reward someone who voluntarily confers a benefit on another (Stovin v Wise, 1996 AC 923, p. 944 per Lord Hoffman). However, that is a long and complicated path. Too much for this answer.
3. The engineer resorts to violence which is often what uneducated and irrational people tend to adopt these days and will almost certainly end up involving the Police. I doubt you want this option unless you yourself prefer it.

It could. But whatever you agree, record it in writing (by text message if necessary) especially if he is willing to concede on the wasted costs in return for the whole contract. Again, not wanting to go to deeply into the law on Promissory Estoppel, this might help you, if it all turns sour.

If all else fails and he wants to go legal, just tell him that you will put him to strict proof on proving his costs. If he can't prove those costs with evidence then a court would be unlikely to award them to him..

Sir, I highly appreciate your in-depth response to my questions. I will await for the engineer to come up with invoice and then see if negotiation could work,

Thank you very much for sharing you valuable knowledge and spreading kindness.