Car sold without my permission

[Sirius1001]

You can report it stolen, but when the police hear the circumstances, and interview the current keeper and see his receipt, I bet they will say it is a civil matter.
Even if the police took the car into custody, i doubt they will easily release it to you

The trouble is that when a car is stolen and sold on there are two victims, the owner and the purchaser.
The court has to decide who will be the loser, and I think the circumstances surrounding this incident are such that it is not possible to guess how that decision will go.

Hi, you mentioned a receipt before but do car sales always have a receipt as I don't think they do (don't think there was one given in the sale to me unless you count the ebay confirmation)? Also the receipt wouldn't be from the owner, anyway.

[Sirius1001]

Does it change anything that the value seems to have doubled in the last year (and he paid half the value in the illegal sale)? Is it more likely that he will return it now or how does a court value it if it gets that far? I've seen some in almost new condition (under 1000miles) listed for £9k recently.

BTW he bought it in the illegal sale just a couple of days before the end of the month. The tax seems to have been paid after he drove it away (it seems it only has to be renewed in a years time on the 1st of the following month from when he bought it going by the records I looked up or doesn't this mean he didn't get the tax the month before like he should have done)?

[des8]

I don't know how it will go if you try and recover the car.
I was just pointing out that the path to recovery of the vehicle might not be as simple as you thought.

One can request a receipt for any purchase, and I would insist on one for something as important as a car.
If the purchaser has a receipt it would indicate that he was an innocent in this transaction, and not guilty of any offence

value and date of purchase of road tax have no bearing on the matter

[Sirius1001]

Hi,

So any other advice? I'm just wondering how it will work even when reported stolen since the DVLA and Police will be working with the log book names which previously was registered to the person I had the car delivered to. After I report it stolen is it easy for it to automatically be in my name or will it still be with the other person ? What if they are unwilling to change it to my name etc?

Companies who give out company cars to employees might have this issue too if the employee doesn't want to cooperate with the DVLA ? Or how do the companies ensure they can control who the registered keeper is? Apparently some are still registered under the company unmbrella name nowadays?

Another similar situation is if a car is on finance and it is sold on without the finance company being notified. How do the DVLA deal with it? Whenever I've been on the phone to them they always seem to suggest these things are civil cases (they don't want to get involved at all). How on earth do they deal with the mess regarding registered keepers if the previous (if sold on) or current keeper do now want to cooperate (with finance agreements, for example)?

[des8]

If you report it stolen, nothing will happen unless you can prove it stolen. it will remain registered in the current keepers name

Companies can easily prove if they are owners of vehicles as they keep records

If a third party innocently purchases a car which is on HP they might have good title to it (see sec 27 hire Purchase Act 1964)

[Sirius1001]

If you report it stolen, nothing will happen unless you can prove it stolen. it will remain registered in the current keepers name

Companies can easily prove if they are owners of vehicles as they keep records

If a third party innocently purchases a car which is on HP they might have good title to it (see sec 27 hire Purchase Act 1964)

Hi,

Yes, that law is interesting in that why would people bother with HPI checks? Maybe it is in there interest not to do a check as then they can claim they didn't know?

Also, I have proof of the purchase as I have the email confirmation from ebay and it wouldn't be hard to get proof I sent the money for it as it was a bank transfer just prior to the delivery. It's not like it is in dispute that I bought it with my own money.

[des8]

You will need to initiate a claim for return of the vehicle, or a claim against your relatives for its value

I'm not second guessing what the outcome will be.

The law regarding wrongful sale of vehicles on a finance deal has no bearing on your situation

[Sirius1001]

You will need to initiate a claim for return of the vehicle, or a claim against your relatives for its value

I'm not second guessing what the outcome will be.

The law regarding wrongful sale of vehicles on a finance deal has no bearing on your situation

I just want my car back, basically. If the relatives now claim they want it back also would that help (they obviously didn't think it was illegal to sell it at the time)? I'm trying to persuade them through other relatives.

BTW, I just noticed looking at my bank statement for when I paid for it that the payment has a reference indicating it is for a car so it is good that I didn't omit the reference (the recipient being the relative who caused the problem and also payment was made before it was delivered - my online statement isn't showing the time but don't think it should matter as it was the same day it was delivered).

[Sirius1001]

Hi,

Yes, that law is interesting in that why would people bother with HPI checks? Maybe it is in there interest not to do a check as then they can claim they didn't know?

Also, I have proof of the purchase as I have the email confirmation from ebay and it wouldn't be hard to get proof I sent the money for it as it was a bank transfer just prior to the delivery. It's not like it is in dispute that I bought it with my own money.

Hi,

Do you know if the details of the keeper are needed to make a civil claim as obviously I want the car back not the money? Also, my main question is under what circumstances would the current keeper be able to claim good title (ignoring the HP law which doesn't apply to me) as from reading around I was under the impression they can't but some solicitors have told me they could? I'm guessing not if it is also classed as theft.

Regarding whether it's also criminal theft (for the person assuming the right to sell it), I think in the last couple of years the criteria was made easier for the 'dishonesty' part after some sort of test case. The fact she told relatives not to tell me might be enough to make it theft or that I repeatedly told her before that she can't sell it. The strange thing is that she thought she was allowed because of the registration so would this make the dishonesty part harder to prove as many people might think this also (or would they be expected not to think this since the registration certificate says it isn't proof of ownership?) The real reason that is obvious to me was to upset me but impossible to prove it. If it is 'dishonest' then as soon as she put it up for sale it would be theft (I think).

[des8]

I'm not sure what you are intending to do, but how do you think you will be able to start a claim against a person if you cannot identify them?

So some solicitors have agreed with the views expressed in post4 regarding the new keeper's title.

IMO your best bet is action against the sellers for the value of the vehicle

[Sirius1001]

I'm not sure what you are intending to do, but how do you think you will be able to start a claim against a person if you cannot identify them?

So some solicitors have agreed with the views expressed in post4 regarding the new keeper's title.

IMO your best bet is action against the sellers for the value of the vehicle

Well I just mean one solicitor has told me they could claim title but this goes against what I've read elsewhere. They don't actually know any of the details yet was just an enquiry with some info. Yes it is a bit of a problem getting the new keeper's details but maybe the police can help. Incidentally, I wonder if they can mark it as lost or stolen on the PNC without having to prosecute anyone (eg. if someone reports their car stolen in a normal way I expect it would usually go on there straight away and only drop off after some weeks I think if unconfirmed or something like that).


"There is a claim under the Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977.

I cannot say what is going to happen. The current person in possession of the vehicle may make a claim that they have good title."

But I didn't think this was possible from what I've read.

BTW, are you sure the police can't pick it up if it's been reported stolen? The keeper won't have a receipt in my case, I'm pretty sure.

[des8]

One cannot be sure of anything in a situation like this.

If you report it as stolen to the police they might suggest it is a civil claim.
If they question your relatives, who knows what they might tell the police, but I doubt it will be a straight " fair cop guv, I stole it"
If they question the current keeper he will say he bought it, and possibly be able to prove it.

I can only tell you what I see are your problems.
If you obtain differing views from whatever source, and you prefer those views, then you must act as you see fit