Return of goods - please advise!

[green_sky]

Approximately 9 months ago I purchased some goods online from the Netherlands (I'm in the UK) which ended up being damaged, so I arranged to return them. The seller sorted all the return arrangements and I dropped them off (2 x parcels) at a UPS drop off location, UPS collected them and I was issued a refund. Two months later one of the parcels was returned to my home address as there appeared to be an issue with the returns paperwork - either an incorrect total amount or vat declaration, I can't quite remember what. A couple of months later the second parcel randomly turned up back at my address also.

In the meantime, I had phoned and emailed both UPS and the shop in the netherlands many times trying to sort the issues, and when the second box turned up, rearrange collection for the parcels. Arrangements were made for the items to be collected in September, October, and November, but no-one came to collect each time. I would receive an apology a couple of weeks after each and told new arrangements would be made. After yet another failed collection on the 22nd November, I emailed the seller the next day to tell them if they weren't collected by the 29th November, i would be disposing of them because I live in a tiny apartment, i have spinal issues and I cant have two large heavy boxes taking up my hallway. I heard nothing back until early this year when I was phoned to arrange collection (completely ignoring the emails I had sent them in November regarding my proposed cut off date). I told them they had been disposed of.

The shop I bought the goods from is quite a large online retailer. Today I received a rather threatening email from them with an invoice for the full amount ~£2,000 plus another few hundred pounds for what appears to be debt collection fees. They said if I paid the full amount today they may be able to wipe off the debt collection fees.

Could anyone please offer any advice? Am I expected to hold onto the goods indefinitely? Do I have to pay the invoice? What about the debt collection fees I'm being threatened with?

[paulajayne]

"The seller sorted all the return arrangements".


They employed UPS to pick up and return the items to them, so the onus is upon them to sort out.

Contact the seller and inform then that the goods are still available to collect and for them to sort it out.

You have no contract with USP - they do.

[green_sky]

"The seller sorted all the return arrangements".


They employed UPS to pick up and return the items to them, so the onus is upon them to sort out.

Contact the seller and inform then that the goods are still available to collect and for them to sort it out.

You have no contract with USP - they do.

Thanks for the advice but like I said, I disposed of the item at the end of November. Also, I tried that approach for months on end and the issue was never sorted.

[echat11]

What you could do, is write to them with a full summary of all your attempts to get them to collect the item. I.E.

I emailed XXXXXXXX on XX/XX/XX to no avail, the package was not collected,
I emailed XXXXXXXX on XX/XX/XX to no avail, the package was not collected,
I emailed XXXXXXXX on XX/XX/XX to no avail, the package was not collected,
I emailed XXXXXXXX on XX/XX/XX to no avail, the package was not collected,

I telephoned XXXXXXX on XX/XX/XX to no avail, the package was not collected,
I telephoned XXXXXXX on XX/XX/XX to no avail, the package was not collected,
I telephoned XXXXXXX on XX/XX/XX to no avail, the package was not collected,
I telephoned XXXXXXX on XX/XX/XX to no avail, the package was not collected.

Explain that they had ample opportunity to collect the item, they failed to do so,
thus the item was disposed of. Tell that any further contact with you will be seen as
Harassment under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

If they are minded to take you to court, you can demonstrate that you tried
everything to resolve the matter.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1997/40/section/1

[green_sky]

What you could do, is write to them with a full summary of all your attempts to get them to collect the item. I.E.

I emailed XXXXXXXX on XX/XX/XX to no avail, the package was not collected,
I emailed XXXXXXXX on XX/XX/XX to no avail, the package was not collected,
I emailed XXXXXXXX on XX/XX/XX to no avail, the package was not collected,
I emailed XXXXXXXX on XX/XX/XX to no avail, the package was not collected,

I telephoned XXXXXXX on XX/XX/XX to no avail, the package was not collected,
I telephoned XXXXXXX on XX/XX/XX to no avail, the package was not collected,
I telephoned XXXXXXX on XX/XX/XX to no avail, the package was not collected,
I telephoned XXXXXXX on XX/XX/XX to no avail, the package was not collected.

Explain that they had ample opportunity to collect the item, they failed to do so,
thus the item was disposed of. Tell that any further contact with you will be seen as
Harassment under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

If they are minded to take you to court, you can demonstrate that you tried
everything to resolve the matter.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1997/40/section/1

I've emailed something similar to that previously and it just goes ignored, I hear nothing back in regards to my points. Do you know where I stand legally?

[echat11]

I've emailed something similar to that previously and it just goes ignored, I hear nothing back in regards to my points. Do you know where I stand legally?

I know the retailer has a certain period in which they should collect the goods. I'm sure that's in the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

des8

[des8]

Interesting situation.
I see two ways to view the matter:
1) they failed to collect damaged goods, so you became an involuntary bailee.
To dispose of these goods you need to act according to Schedule 4 of the torts(interference with goods) act 1997.
This requires you to send registered /recorded letter to owner prior to disposing of the goods.
It appears you only sent email/text message (which is understandable now a days), but not what the law requires

2) as you had returned these goods (dropped off at UPS depot) their delivery back to you may be construed as tantamount to delivery of unsolicited goods.
The Unsolicited Goods and Services Act 1971 makes it an offence for a company to send you goods you have not ordered, and if they do those goods do not have to be paid for and are yours to keep.

As the retailer is based in the Netherlands, I would draw their attention to UK law and tell them no further correspondence will be entertained.
Further communications may lead to an action under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.
I would then ignore all communications unless by chance they tried a cross border claim and you received court papers

[green_sky]

Interesting situation.
I see two ways to view the matter:
1) they failed to collect damaged goods, so you became an involuntary bailee.
To dispose of these goods you need to act according to Schedule 4 of the torts(interference with goods) act 1997.
This requires you to send registered /recorded letter to owner prior to disposing of the goods.
It appears you only sent email/text message (which is understandable now a days), but not what the law requires

2) as you had returned these goods (dropped off at UPS depot) their delivery back to you may be construed as tantamount to delivery of unsolicited goods.
The Unsolicited Goods and Services Act 1971 makes it an offence for a company to send you goods you have not ordered, and if they do those goods do not have to be paid for and are yours to keep.

As the retailer is based in the Netherlands, I would draw their attention to UK law and tell them no further correspondence will be entertained.
Further communications may lead to an action under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.
I would then ignore all communications unless by chance they tried a cross border claim and you received court papers

Thank you, that's helpful information. I can probably assume they will come at it from angle number 1. I had no idea emails and telephone calls weren't 'enough', so it looks like I may be in a spot of bother. I really don't know where I should go from here because I can already tell by their tone that they'll likely go all out on this, especially as the goods were valued at ~£2k.

[des8]

Their claim will probably be for not returning the goods you owe £2000.

I would defend firstly on the basis they were unsolicited goods & therefore mine to dispose, but if that is disputed then out of courtesy I advised them I was disposing of the goods as per the Torts Act.

Really not worth trying to work out a defence until you know exactly what they base their claim on

[green_sky]

des8 Today i received a letter through the post from the collection agency they use who are also based in the Netherlands. They want payment within 8 days else 'further action will have to be taken', which involves yet further costs and 'other effects'.

I'm confused with who I should be contacting about the issue now. The retailer doesn't reply to my emails, so should I be in communications with this collection agency, or should I try sending the retailer another email?

[des8]

You could ignore the debt collectors or tell them their principal failed to collect the goods and you have disposed of them in accordance with UK law Torts (interference with Goods) Act 1997 and as such you do not recognise the debt which they should return to the retailer.
Add that any further communications from them will be ignored.

Then ignore (but keep) any further communications except court papers

[Ukmicky]

The goods are not unsolicited under the Act as you originally ordered them and they were then mistakenly returned to you by the carrier so the company have a right to ask for them back.

You however are not responsible for the sending of them back and should allow a reasonable amount of time for the company to collect them. I assume you have retained evidence that you sent them the first time and then informed the company that the same goods had mistakenly been returned back to you and that they needed to arrange for their collection or you will dispose of them.

[green_sky]

The goods are not unsolicited under the Act as you originally ordered them and they were then mistakenly returned to you by the carrier and the company have a right to ask for them back.

You however are not responsible for the sending of them back and should provided a reasonable amount of time for the company to collect them. I assume you have retained evidence that you sent them the first time and then informed the company that the same goods had mistakenly been returned back to you and that they needed to arrange for their collection or you will dispose of them.

Yes, I have proof that I took the items to a UPS drop-off point and were collected by UPS back in May. There were 2 x parcels and the first one came back to me in July, and the second one turned up in September. I've had a quick check through my emails and collection dates were confirmed by the retailer in October and November which weren't followed through. In my emails I ask for collections to be made in September, October, and November several times. I also discussed this whole situation with their customer services many times on the telephone and I'm 99% sure there was at least one or two other failed collection dates arranged, but as they were calls I have no proof. I also informed them that I had one, and then again when the second one also arrived, again both via email and telephone.

On November 23rd, I sent an email where I gave the retailer 7 days to collect or I said I would have to dispose of the items. I now realise that I should have said 14 days and also sent that in writing, but either way I heard nothing back from the retailer until a phone call In early January where I told them I had disposed of the items.

Now, here I am on legalbeagles seeking help...

[echat11]

This is 'just in case' you need to defend any claim.

Send UPS a subject Access Request, they have 30 days to provide all the data under your name / address. Make sure you get Proof of Postage.

See if there is an equivalent in the Netherlands, then request the same from the retailer. Make sure you get Proof of Postage.

Send a SAR to your phone provider, make sure you get Proof of Postage.

https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...ccess-request/

[Ukmicky]

The only issue I can see is if they were returned to you because you failed to follow the returns procedure the company ask you to follow ,custom forms etc.