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Hello all
I'm looking for advice please as I am not in a good station at the moment with my recently purchased used car.
Please bear with me as this is long, but I wanted to include everything to make sure I'm going down the right path.
I bought a car on 03/10/2021 for £3695 from an "AA approved" dealership with 6 months warranty.
A couple of weeks later, I got stuck in third gear when I stopped at a traffic light. The only way it would come out of gear was to turn the car off and back on again. This didn't happen again, so I didn't think much of it, maybe something I had done wrong at the time. A week later it happened again, then the next day, as I was driving it, the brake warning light came on. I stopped and realised I could hear air coming out when I pressed the brake pedal down. I carefully went home and left the car on the drive while I sorted it out. Oddly, it was also the same day my windscreen wipers started to have issues, the washer fluid wasn't coming out and the wipers kept stopping in the middle of the screen.
I rang the warrantee company on 27/10/2021 to confirm I could take it to any VAT registered garage. I decided to go for a diagnostic at Renault given that it was a warning light and the issue with the gearbox, I thought at least it would be clear what the problem was. My appointment was then delayed to Tuesday 02/11/2021 due to staff being off with Covid. (I was aware I would pay for the cost of the diagnostic myself).
Tuesday came and the diagnostic went ahead. They called with bad news in the afternoon. Here is the list:
Brake fluid leaking from bell housing suspected slave leaking
Wipers don't park
Washers don't work
Battery terminals loose and incorrectly fitted
Battery insecure
Brake fluid too low to test
Two tyres with low tread
Play in steering rack ends, require repair and tracking
NSF coil spring broken (pair advised due to car)
Front brakes 70-80% worn (discs and pads needed)
Back brakes 89-90% worn (discs and pads needed)
Minor oil leaks on engine
I have this list in a dated pdf file and also I have a video of the mechanic going around the car and showing all the faults.
In total, to fix everything the bill was around £3800. This price did also include the cam and aux belt changing, which I have excluded from the above list as this was only advised due to them now knowing when it was last done, and I did speak to the dealership about this as I wanted to know when I bought it. (They said the car had full service history, but had convieneitly lost the book so it actually didn't have full service history at all.) The cost of that would be £650, so say the total is now £3150.
Of course I was shocked! At this point it was exactly 30 days since 03/10/2021 when the purchase was made. I wasn't sure of my rights etc. then, but I gave the dealership a ring and asked them about returning the car. They said they didn't do returns so I couldn't take it back (I hadn't looked at the consumer rights act at this point). The person on the phone was not the salesperson we had dealt with when we purchased the car. I was trying to explain the list of faults with the car, however as soon as I mentioned the brakes he interrupted me and claimed he could sort that out for a couple of hundred pounds, Renault themselves charge too much etc. etc. I wasn't disputing the cost, but I couldn't keep going through the list without him interrupting me, so I don't think he actually realised (or cared) how many faults there were. I left it at that point as they said they would look for a garage near me (I am 200+ miles away from the dealership) and get back to me tomorrow. I had a long day so left it at that.
The next day I called again to try and speak to his colleague, he wasn't there again. As soon as I mentioned the consumer rights act he went off on a rant and wouldn't let me get a work in edgeways. He was impossible to speak to, so I thought I would leave it and speak to the salesperson we dealt with. We were unable to get hold of him though, so it was't until I managed to find their email address and sent an email on Saturday 06/11/2021 including a pdf of the above listed faults and the video of the faults that I finally got a reply from the person I wanted to speak to.
In this time the garage had filled out a form for the warranty company as the clutch slave cylinder was responsible for the brake fluid leak. This part was listed on my level of cover, so I thought great, at least that is something I won't have to pay for. But no... the warranty company declined the claim as they said the part failed due to 'fair wear and tear'...
So finally I was one the phone with the salesperson on 06/11/2021 after they had read my email. He was more patient and he listened, however he said there is nothing they can do as all of the mentioned faults are fair wear and tear for a car of its age. I tried to argue this and stated the consumer rights act, he then said we could return the car, but he wouldd deduct for all the faults that needed repairing as they had happened in my possession.
I then argued that as the faults happened within 30 days, it was up to the dealership to prove that the faults were not present at the time of sale. He says they can. He claims they had a full vehicle health check at their dealership, and this was all clear. I asked for him to send me a copy, he said he cannot. He claims the information is only on their system, it doesn't exist in a file they can attach or print out. The only way he can show me is for me to go down there and he can show me on the screen. I asked if he could take a picture, no. I don't even know what proof that would be, as anyone can write in a text box that a health check has been done with no proof.
So I don't know where to go with this. I'm £3700 down, I have no drivable car at the moment, and I've been without the car for a week now.
I have spoken to citizens advice, and while they were helpful I'm still confused about the 'fair wear and tear' issue. The car is 13 years old, so I really don't know where I stand with that at all and it's making me question whether or not there is anything I can do, or whether it is worth the effort.
It seems I have a couple of ways I can take this, and this is where I need advice really.
1. The consumer rights act states that if a fault occurs within 30 days I can reject the car and return it for a full refund.
So the faults happened with 30 days, within three weeks actually but then it took another week for the diagnostic to happen. However, I didn't speak to them until the 30th day, and although I did ask to return it for a refund, I didn't do a anything official or make any demands there and then. My question is, can I still go down this route now the 30 days have passed? The warranty company have a record of me registering the fault with them on 27/10/2021, then I made an appointment that same day for 29/10/2021, however this was delayed until 1/11/2021. I have dated proof of the diagnostic, to show the faults were present on the 30th day. My main worry is if I take this route to the small claims court, I could lose because I will now be sending letters asking for a full refund, and it is now after the 30
days.
2. Request a partial refund or repair.
I wouldn't mind keeping the car to be honest, now I know every fault so if I go about fixing them then I will know the condition is good at least! But I am not prepared to pay for it all! The dealership say there is nothing they can do as it all fair wear and tear and if I take them to court they will win.
What is fair wear and tear? The car is 13 years old yes, but the MOT was done in July (no advisories), a service was performed by Renault in February 2021 and you just don't expect a list of repairs that long when you have had the car for a month. I do not believe all faults appeared in the three weeks I has possession of the car. The dealership had the car three days after it's MOT, it had done a few tens of miles in-between that time and the time that I purchased it in October. I have done around 300 miles maybe in the three weeks I had it (I can get the exact number if I needed it). How is this fair?
My car is still at the Renault garage at the moment. I have asked them (as advised by the CAB) if the mechanic who performed the diagnostic is willing to offer his opinion on two things, 1) whether this is fair wear and tear considering the age of the car, and 2) whether he thinks the faults could have been present on 03/10/2021 when the car was purchased. I'm still waiting to hear from them at the moment.
I was thinking about paying for the clutch cylinder to be done so at least I could use the car a little if I was desperate, but then I don't know whether this shows I accept the car as it is. I definitely do not, as I wouldn't want to be driving it around with a broken coil etc anyway. If I start doing repairs myself, would I be able to fight to claim the costs back as a partial refund, or am I then accepting responsibility for the car? I need something to drive, but I don't want to shoot myself in the foot by starting to pay for repairs.
Any advise is gratefully received. I've never had to deal with this kind of thing before so I just don't know where to start really, and the timing and the fair wear and tear issues seem to complicate matters.
I'm so frustrated that they just claim all responsibility is mine as it is all fair wear and tear. If just the front and back brakes needed replacing I would have swallowed the cost and sorted it myself without even speaking to them, but this is a long and costly list! Even at a cheaper garage, this is still a hefty bill.
Thanks!
I'm looking for advice please as I am not in a good station at the moment with my recently purchased used car.
Please bear with me as this is long, but I wanted to include everything to make sure I'm going down the right path.
I bought a car on 03/10/2021 for £3695 from an "AA approved" dealership with 6 months warranty.
A couple of weeks later, I got stuck in third gear when I stopped at a traffic light. The only way it would come out of gear was to turn the car off and back on again. This didn't happen again, so I didn't think much of it, maybe something I had done wrong at the time. A week later it happened again, then the next day, as I was driving it, the brake warning light came on. I stopped and realised I could hear air coming out when I pressed the brake pedal down. I carefully went home and left the car on the drive while I sorted it out. Oddly, it was also the same day my windscreen wipers started to have issues, the washer fluid wasn't coming out and the wipers kept stopping in the middle of the screen.
I rang the warrantee company on 27/10/2021 to confirm I could take it to any VAT registered garage. I decided to go for a diagnostic at Renault given that it was a warning light and the issue with the gearbox, I thought at least it would be clear what the problem was. My appointment was then delayed to Tuesday 02/11/2021 due to staff being off with Covid. (I was aware I would pay for the cost of the diagnostic myself).
Tuesday came and the diagnostic went ahead. They called with bad news in the afternoon. Here is the list:
Brake fluid leaking from bell housing suspected slave leaking
Wipers don't park
Washers don't work
Battery terminals loose and incorrectly fitted
Battery insecure
Brake fluid too low to test
Two tyres with low tread
Play in steering rack ends, require repair and tracking
NSF coil spring broken (pair advised due to car)
Front brakes 70-80% worn (discs and pads needed)
Back brakes 89-90% worn (discs and pads needed)
Minor oil leaks on engine
I have this list in a dated pdf file and also I have a video of the mechanic going around the car and showing all the faults.
In total, to fix everything the bill was around £3800. This price did also include the cam and aux belt changing, which I have excluded from the above list as this was only advised due to them now knowing when it was last done, and I did speak to the dealership about this as I wanted to know when I bought it. (They said the car had full service history, but had convieneitly lost the book so it actually didn't have full service history at all.) The cost of that would be £650, so say the total is now £3150.
Of course I was shocked! At this point it was exactly 30 days since 03/10/2021 when the purchase was made. I wasn't sure of my rights etc. then, but I gave the dealership a ring and asked them about returning the car. They said they didn't do returns so I couldn't take it back (I hadn't looked at the consumer rights act at this point). The person on the phone was not the salesperson we had dealt with when we purchased the car. I was trying to explain the list of faults with the car, however as soon as I mentioned the brakes he interrupted me and claimed he could sort that out for a couple of hundred pounds, Renault themselves charge too much etc. etc. I wasn't disputing the cost, but I couldn't keep going through the list without him interrupting me, so I don't think he actually realised (or cared) how many faults there were. I left it at that point as they said they would look for a garage near me (I am 200+ miles away from the dealership) and get back to me tomorrow. I had a long day so left it at that.
The next day I called again to try and speak to his colleague, he wasn't there again. As soon as I mentioned the consumer rights act he went off on a rant and wouldn't let me get a work in edgeways. He was impossible to speak to, so I thought I would leave it and speak to the salesperson we dealt with. We were unable to get hold of him though, so it was't until I managed to find their email address and sent an email on Saturday 06/11/2021 including a pdf of the above listed faults and the video of the faults that I finally got a reply from the person I wanted to speak to.
In this time the garage had filled out a form for the warranty company as the clutch slave cylinder was responsible for the brake fluid leak. This part was listed on my level of cover, so I thought great, at least that is something I won't have to pay for. But no... the warranty company declined the claim as they said the part failed due to 'fair wear and tear'...
So finally I was one the phone with the salesperson on 06/11/2021 after they had read my email. He was more patient and he listened, however he said there is nothing they can do as all of the mentioned faults are fair wear and tear for a car of its age. I tried to argue this and stated the consumer rights act, he then said we could return the car, but he wouldd deduct for all the faults that needed repairing as they had happened in my possession.
I then argued that as the faults happened within 30 days, it was up to the dealership to prove that the faults were not present at the time of sale. He says they can. He claims they had a full vehicle health check at their dealership, and this was all clear. I asked for him to send me a copy, he said he cannot. He claims the information is only on their system, it doesn't exist in a file they can attach or print out. The only way he can show me is for me to go down there and he can show me on the screen. I asked if he could take a picture, no. I don't even know what proof that would be, as anyone can write in a text box that a health check has been done with no proof.
So I don't know where to go with this. I'm £3700 down, I have no drivable car at the moment, and I've been without the car for a week now.
I have spoken to citizens advice, and while they were helpful I'm still confused about the 'fair wear and tear' issue. The car is 13 years old, so I really don't know where I stand with that at all and it's making me question whether or not there is anything I can do, or whether it is worth the effort.
It seems I have a couple of ways I can take this, and this is where I need advice really.
1. The consumer rights act states that if a fault occurs within 30 days I can reject the car and return it for a full refund.
So the faults happened with 30 days, within three weeks actually but then it took another week for the diagnostic to happen. However, I didn't speak to them until the 30th day, and although I did ask to return it for a refund, I didn't do a anything official or make any demands there and then. My question is, can I still go down this route now the 30 days have passed? The warranty company have a record of me registering the fault with them on 27/10/2021, then I made an appointment that same day for 29/10/2021, however this was delayed until 1/11/2021. I have dated proof of the diagnostic, to show the faults were present on the 30th day. My main worry is if I take this route to the small claims court, I could lose because I will now be sending letters asking for a full refund, and it is now after the 30
days.
2. Request a partial refund or repair.
I wouldn't mind keeping the car to be honest, now I know every fault so if I go about fixing them then I will know the condition is good at least! But I am not prepared to pay for it all! The dealership say there is nothing they can do as it all fair wear and tear and if I take them to court they will win.
What is fair wear and tear? The car is 13 years old yes, but the MOT was done in July (no advisories), a service was performed by Renault in February 2021 and you just don't expect a list of repairs that long when you have had the car for a month. I do not believe all faults appeared in the three weeks I has possession of the car. The dealership had the car three days after it's MOT, it had done a few tens of miles in-between that time and the time that I purchased it in October. I have done around 300 miles maybe in the three weeks I had it (I can get the exact number if I needed it). How is this fair?
My car is still at the Renault garage at the moment. I have asked them (as advised by the CAB) if the mechanic who performed the diagnostic is willing to offer his opinion on two things, 1) whether this is fair wear and tear considering the age of the car, and 2) whether he thinks the faults could have been present on 03/10/2021 when the car was purchased. I'm still waiting to hear from them at the moment.
I was thinking about paying for the clutch cylinder to be done so at least I could use the car a little if I was desperate, but then I don't know whether this shows I accept the car as it is. I definitely do not, as I wouldn't want to be driving it around with a broken coil etc anyway. If I start doing repairs myself, would I be able to fight to claim the costs back as a partial refund, or am I then accepting responsibility for the car? I need something to drive, but I don't want to shoot myself in the foot by starting to pay for repairs.
Any advise is gratefully received. I've never had to deal with this kind of thing before so I just don't know where to start really, and the timing and the fair wear and tear issues seem to complicate matters.
I'm so frustrated that they just claim all responsibility is mine as it is all fair wear and tear. If just the front and back brakes needed replacing I would have swallowed the cost and sorted it myself without even speaking to them, but this is a long and costly list! Even at a cheaper garage, this is still a hefty bill.
Thanks!
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