Dealer uncooperative on repair work

[Gozzer]

Hi. I've seen a lot of incredibly helpful posts on this forum so thought I'd see if anybody can help me out with my situation. I'm self employed/a sole trader and the van purchased was intended to be used for both work and private use.

Quick summary
Purchased used van. Had issues and returned for repairs within first 30 days. Had further issues and engine failed, was refused a refund but told they would repair by changing the engine. Haven't been provided with any documentation or information on the engine put in the van apart from a basic invoice with minimal information. Don't think the repair is acceptable until they can provide the required information or the means to obtain the information to update both the DVLA and my insurance provider.


Longer detailed version
14/11/2020
Paid for van via bank transfer - £5000 08 plate Renault Trafic with 96,000 miles on odometer.

04/12/2020
Took van back to dealer after identifying and asking for repairs on a list of issues:

• Excessive exhaust fumes/smoke on startup/idle which I have video evidence of (This was the main issue which I stressed to them, told them I didn't think it was acceptable and needed investigating and repairing)
• Rubber seal missing from sliding door allowing rainwater to easily enter the back area of van
• Internal heating/AC system only working on full power setting (4 on a 0-4 dial)
• Windscreen wipers intermittent
• Reverse lights intermittent
• Exhaust pipe loose and rattling

14/12/2020
Picked van back up from dealer after they had addressed the issues. All issues appeared to have been resolved apart from the excessive exhaust fumes/smoke. Was told that the issue was being caused by fuel residue left in the system after they had cleaned a turbo and it would fade after the van had been driven some miles. No paperwork or documentation given on any work done. Took their word for it.

09/01/2021
Up until this point the exhaust fumes/smoke was still an issue. On the 9th I then noticed a 'knocking' from the engine bay area alongside the fumes/smoke from exhaust getting more severe than before.

11/01/2021
Spoke to dealer on the phone and told them of issues. Told them the van would drive but didn't seem a good idea to drive it, but agreed to drive it back to them as they're only about a 9 mile drive away.

12/01/2021
Attempted to drive to the dealer but broke down on the way. Towed the rest of the way by breakdown cover. Upon arrival at the dealership I discussed the issue with a member of staff and told them I would like a refund. Stated that this was the second occasion the van had to go back to them for repair and I would like my money back. Was told that a refund was not an option as it had been over 30 days since the purchase, but they would do whatever it took to repair the van. I really just wanted my money back at this point but had no idea what I was entitled to. Reluctantly left the dealership allowing them to look into the problem and specifically stating I would like some information in writing from them on the problem.

Received a phone call from the dealership stating the engine had failed and had been badly damaged. They offered to repair it by swapping the engine out with an engine they had from a van already on site that had done approximately 60,000 miles. Reluctantly agreed as I felt I had no other choice. Received nothing in writing.

15/01/2021
Agreed over phone to collect van from dealer asap
Unfortunately realised after all was said and done via talking to CAB and looking online that they shouldn't have refused me a refund on 12th after being towed in.

16/01/2021
Went to dealership and explained they shouldn't have refused me a refund and that I still actually wanted a refund. Initially had a pretty rude and aggressive response telling me I had to take the van from their premises otherwise they would leave it out in the road, that they pay £1000 for a solicitor and had been to court loads of times, the van is drive-able and they'd win if it went to court. Discussed the problem for a little while and they cooled off a bit. Asked them what came with the engine, if I could get a warranty on it and if I could have any faith it would last any longer than the previous engine. They offered nothing and gave me nothing documenting any of the work done. Drove the van back home (Only due to the threat of them leaving it out on the road) and have left it on the drive ever since.


After some deliberation I decided it would be best to simply accept the second repair. Had a look online and realised that I needed to inform both the DVLA and my insurance provider of the engine change.

• https://www.gov.uk/change-vehicle-de...on-certificate
• https://www.gov.uk/change-vehicle-de...idence-to-give

Unfortunately this is where the saga continues and they haven't been very co-operative. Took a while but I managed to get replies out of them in writing. Asked if they could provide any written information or documentation on any of the repair works carried out to which they said they couldn't. Told them I had to inform the DVLA of an engine change and could not do so without them providing me the information needed. They didn't reply. Told them I couldn't accept the repair of an engine change without knowing where the engine came from and its engine number - I would have no other choice but to pursue a refund via ADR or legal action if they couldn't provide what was required. They then replied saying it is not law to notify the DVLA of an engine change if the fuel type and CC is the same, I had agreed for the work to go ahead and if I wanted to go legal to email them and they would pass it on to 'our solicitor'. DVLA have told me I am legally obliged to tell them of an engine change - even if it is a like for like swap, they want to know the new engine number. Found this DVSA sanctions policy online - https://www.gov.uk/government/public...nctions-policy. It Clearly states:

• OFFENCE DESCRIPTION - FAIL TO NOTIFY THE SECRETARY OF STATE OF AN ALTERATION THAT MADE ANY OF THE PARTICULARS SET OUT IN THE REGISTRATION DOCUMENT INCORRECT
• REG - Regulation 16(1) of the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002 and Section 59 of the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994

My understanding of that is that I'm committing an offence by having an incorrect engine number on the V5C and can be fined up to £1000 as a result. Is this correct?

Dealer provided a different email address of their own, which I emailed. It must have been forwarded on and ever since I have been in conversation with someone from Lawdata LTD. Thanks to other posts on this forum I can see that Lawdata aren't a regulated firm and have no registered solicitors (May be wrong though?). Seems they just offer legal advice to their clients. Their replies are basic (one laughable) and seem nothing more than a bit of a deterrent. They did however attach an invoice which looks to be the purchase of the engine, but it's a very basic hand written invoice on headed paper with no information as to the engine model, engine number or what vehicle it came from. This confused me anyway as I was previously told the engine was coming from a van the dealer had on site......

Lawdata advised me to find the engine number stamped on the engine block. I have looked extensively in to identifying the engine number that should be both stamped on the engine block and on a sticker on the timing cover. The sticker on the timing cover isn't there and you can see at some point it has been removed as there is still residue left from the sticker adhesive (have a photo and lots of other engines online showing the sticker in this exact location). The stamp on the engine block is obscured whilst the engine is installed in the van (had a mechanic do an inspection).

Finding it hard to see exactly where I stand with all this at the minute. I don't want to use the vehicle until I've fulfilled my legal obligation to inform the DVLA and to ensure my insurance policy is valid (Have been told it's not valid until I can tell them exactly what engine has gone into the van). This means since purchasing the van on 14/11 I've only had around 7 weeks where I've been able to use it. I've told the dealer I'll accept the engine change if they just provide me with what I require to update both the DVLA and my insurer. Surely I've given them a reasonable amount of time and opportunity to resolve the issue?

Thanks for any help and sorry for the wall of text,

Goz

[EnglandPi]

It would be very unusual to change the entire engine in these circumstances, it's far more likely they would have carried out a partial engine change like replacing the cylinder head.

You may find the vin number on the engine and vehicle chassis are still the same and the reason they are not telling you is because they have told you they changed the engine.

Unfortunately, when you agreed to the repair you lost your rights to a refund but if the repair was not up to standard or not carried out as specified then you could still be entitled to a refund.

I would suggest in the first instance, you need to have the vehicle inspected by an independent engineer who could advise on the alleged engine replacement.

[des8]

As this was a Business to business transaction the Consumer Rights Act 2015 is of no effect, and you do not have the automatic right to reject.

The legislation to look to is The Sale of Goods Act 1979 and Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982

Suggest you have a mechanic obtain the engine number, even if it means stripping it out.
You will then know whether or not the engine has been replaced and can take appropriate action.

Does the engine now seem satisfactory.?
As you have noted, Lawdata are of no concern

[EnglandPi]

As this was a Business to business transaction the Consumer Rights Act 2015 is of no effect,

Although it would appear at first glance the Consumer Rights Act 2015 has no effect because this was a business to business transaction, under the act, a sole trader as classed as an individual and therefore retains his rights.

[Gozzer]

I will try and get the engine inspected by a regulated mechanic/engineer. I have previously looked at AA and RAC inspections but they won't disassemble any parts. Should I be requiring the dealer to foot the bill for any costs? Seems ridiculous that this information should be a part of the repair, provided by them and would have been easily identifiable before they installed the replacement engine. Now I may have to pay to get the engine/parts stripped just to get to the engine number.

What action would i be looking into if:

• Dealer has lied about the repair
• Engine number is unidentifiable
• Engine number is associated with a stolen vehicle

On the minimal use the van has had since taking it from the dealer the engine does seem satisfactory. Drove home fine and no lights on the dash. Don't think I can accurately say anything else without having driven it more and getting an inspection from a professional.

If I am to have any further conversations with the dealership should I continue to do so through Lawdata and just cc the dealer in?

As for my rights under CRA:
“Consumer” means an individual acting for purposes that are wholly or mainly outside that individual’s trade, business, craft or profession.
I take it I would only be able to claim rights to the CRA if I was able to prove the main use of the van was private?

[des8]

Anyway....what ever legislation you come to rely on:
is the engine now satisfactory?
You need a receipt from the dealer confirming the engine replacement number or confirmation on headed paper from a third party garage to comply with DVLA regulations.
So you could write (signed for) to the dealer (and copy in Lawdata) telling them that as they had not carried out the repair with reasonable care
you would be having the work carried out by a third party and claiming the cost from them.
As professionals they should have known you would require the engine number to comply with the regulations
To fail to supply that number is not acting with reasonable care and you are now having to have the engine stripped to access the number.
They should have supplied that number, and tell them they have seven days in which to comply. If they fail you will proceed as described above without further reference to them.

When you have that information you can decide on the next step