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Hi everyone,
First message on here.* Think I’m going to have to take a dealer to court but never done this before, lots wrong in the whole process of the sale which I’ll explain below so I guess I’m also seeking some re-assurance that I’ve got enough to make a strong case if this does happen!
Background*
Went to look at a van mid December.** Looked as advertised (new paint job, wheels etc) and history of vehicle seemed to match back and relatively low miles for a vehicle of it’s age. To be honest alarm bells should have gone when I got in the vehicle and the cabin was warm (vehicle was running when I arrived).
Took for a test drive, and agreed to buy for agreed price which included a new MOT, full service, full tank of fuel and 12 months RAC Warranty.* With the dealer saying he’d sort any advisory items flagged.* Paid deposit on 14th December.
Picked up the vehicle on the 23rd December, paid for vehicle, drove home all seemed ok but again vehicle was warm when I collected.* Was told service was all fine, RAC paperwork could take a week (I note this still hasn’t arrived). *
Fault 1
First cold start on 24th December and we had a problem.* Phoned dealer on 30th December, he advised to give it a good run and call back if problem persisted (which it did).* Booked vehicle in for diagnosis with dealer during the following week, confirmed the fault.* After a bit of negotiation dealer agreed to replace with a new part (I agreed to pay for the difference in parts, later found out that VW carry stock of part needed despite dealer claiming to have tried to source and could only offer second hand part).* Repaired on 17th Jan so I collected.
From consumer rights perspective I’d had the vehicle for 6 days as I believe the time between 30th December and 17th Jan doesn’t count as fault identified and dealer agreed I could use vehicle with fault as not damaging vehicle.
Fault 2
Started vehicle on 18th Jan, new fault! Take to a VW approved garage who confirm fault and advise to phone dealer.* Do this and he tells me I’ll need to pay for diagnosis and claim any work on my warranty (have this in writing from him).
Do a bit of searching and look at my rights, email dealer to check what he said was correct as he should be taking responsibility as we’re well within the 30 days.
This is where the dealer changed, called back and started getting aggressive and asking if we had a problem says he prefers to sort things man to man rather than in writing! *Alarm bells going off now.
Got the van booked in for full diagnosis on Monday with garage but started looking through paper work.**
The full service was carried out by the dealer on the 19th Dec where he should identified there was an issue caused by the fault, some *other issues starting to develop which I hadn’t even flagged at this point but again should have been spotted on service.* In addition as part of the RAC Warranty the dealer has to carry out and 82 point inspection before the plan is live with a number of these faults been picked up here too.* I had no paperwork from dealer on either of these things and to be honest I doubt they’ve be done.
Tuesday the garage confirm fault again.
Advise dealer and put in writing but again gets aggressive with me and then garage.* Dealer adamant fault is from something he repaired nearly a year ago (again I have this in writing from him) and remnants of this (which clearly means he didn’t do the service if this is true).
Dealer then gets legal advice and asks for vehicle to be returned for his own inspection.* He goes on holiday so communication dies down.
On his return (26th Jan) I ask 2 times in 48 hours for findings from full service and RAC Warranty to be sent, he ignores both, now very suspicious of anything that has been done to the vehicle.
I then had the vehicle recovered to VW vans and pay for diagnosis on 30th Jan.* They confirm findings but more problems linked to fault and what would need to be done to resolve as well as finding numerous other issues/faults that should have been highlighted in a full service or the RAC inspection.* VW also found an issue with a part that failed the MOT but was then fixed for it to pass.
Phone dealer to advise, turns very aggressive and we have to terminate call, put in writing.* Email written from his solicitor in reply to my email requesting that we afford him the opportunity to investigate issues with a view to a refund if confirmed.**
Agreed to this on the basis that the vehicle is recovered to his dealership and then looked at a garage of his choice (he does not have the facilities and is a car dealer).* He asks if he can drive the vehicle, I advise I would rather he didn’t but if he accepts full liability for anything that happens his call. *He put all of this in writing to me.
Also agreed that he could do a video inspection of the vehicle at VW to confirm that the vehicle was still in the same condition as when I bought it.
Meet at VW vans as agreed video inspection all went fine, I asked dealer again for paperwork from service, he now claims he didn’t do it even though he has stamped the service log book.* I have kept hold of the service log book.
Dealer leaves and heads back, we set off a few mins later but head in the same direction.* About 10 mins in we see the van in a car park at side of the road with the dealer and his colleague next to the van with the bonnet up.
At the time we couldn’t stop and didn’t want the confrontation and had to pick my son up so dove down to collect him.* We had to go back on the same dual carriage and as we pull on dealer speeds past in van.* We follow and film him travelling at well over 80mph but he then realised we were behind and slowed down.* Got this on video of him driving the van at excessive speed with numerous faults.
He then pulled in to a service station and 5 mins later sends a WhatsApp message showing a video of him at the previous garage doing work on the van.* He was trying to show there wasn’t a problem as he had fixed it with a £3 pair of pliers, felt like he was trying to intimidate us as he didn’t fix anything just pulled a few pipes of the top of the coolant system and drained less than 10% of the system out (fault is causing excessive oil build up in system).
Apologies for the very long story but we’re now at stalemate!
We allowed dealer to fix fault one, but not the next fault.** As it stands we are only 7 days in to our 30 for right to reject for a full refund.
We have asked for a full refund for the confirmed fault but dealer not willing to do this or believe 2 garages confirmation of this.
The dealer repeatedly changes his story, he now claims he didn’t do the service but stamped the book which I would imagine is illegal?
There is a potential MOT issue, not sure this is now a legitimate MOT that the vehicle has.
No evidence that any work has been carried out other than changing a few bulbs for an MOT, dealer cannot provide any paper work to prove otherwise for service and RAC inspection.
The dealer carried out unauthorised work on the vehicle in a cafe car park, he has had the vehicle for 48 hours so worry what else he has done.* I believe any findings from his chosen mechanics are now are invalid and we have evidence he tampered with the vehicle before independent verification of the fault to confirm initial findings.
He was reckless in charge of a vehicle that doesn’t belong to him and who knows what damage it may have caused (main fault is with coolant system of the vehicle).
I can’t understand why he would risk going to court given his actions but have tried everything to reason with him and he won’t budge.
I don’t think I’m worried about having enough evidence it’s whether it’s telling a coherent explanation of everything that has happened!
I’ve not called the dealer out on his practices as I’ve tried not to annoy him but have made it clear about the facts and have all requests / replies documented that tell a clear version of events from our side but mixed from the dealers side which I would imagine won’t look favourable for him if it goes to court?
We’re at the point of issuing notice that we want to now resolve this in court.
Hope this all makes sense, appreciate any thoughts people have!
Thanks
Dave
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * **
First message on here.* Think I’m going to have to take a dealer to court but never done this before, lots wrong in the whole process of the sale which I’ll explain below so I guess I’m also seeking some re-assurance that I’ve got enough to make a strong case if this does happen!
Background*
Went to look at a van mid December.** Looked as advertised (new paint job, wheels etc) and history of vehicle seemed to match back and relatively low miles for a vehicle of it’s age. To be honest alarm bells should have gone when I got in the vehicle and the cabin was warm (vehicle was running when I arrived).
Took for a test drive, and agreed to buy for agreed price which included a new MOT, full service, full tank of fuel and 12 months RAC Warranty.* With the dealer saying he’d sort any advisory items flagged.* Paid deposit on 14th December.
Picked up the vehicle on the 23rd December, paid for vehicle, drove home all seemed ok but again vehicle was warm when I collected.* Was told service was all fine, RAC paperwork could take a week (I note this still hasn’t arrived). *
Fault 1
First cold start on 24th December and we had a problem.* Phoned dealer on 30th December, he advised to give it a good run and call back if problem persisted (which it did).* Booked vehicle in for diagnosis with dealer during the following week, confirmed the fault.* After a bit of negotiation dealer agreed to replace with a new part (I agreed to pay for the difference in parts, later found out that VW carry stock of part needed despite dealer claiming to have tried to source and could only offer second hand part).* Repaired on 17th Jan so I collected.
From consumer rights perspective I’d had the vehicle for 6 days as I believe the time between 30th December and 17th Jan doesn’t count as fault identified and dealer agreed I could use vehicle with fault as not damaging vehicle.
Fault 2
Started vehicle on 18th Jan, new fault! Take to a VW approved garage who confirm fault and advise to phone dealer.* Do this and he tells me I’ll need to pay for diagnosis and claim any work on my warranty (have this in writing from him).
Do a bit of searching and look at my rights, email dealer to check what he said was correct as he should be taking responsibility as we’re well within the 30 days.
This is where the dealer changed, called back and started getting aggressive and asking if we had a problem says he prefers to sort things man to man rather than in writing! *Alarm bells going off now.
Got the van booked in for full diagnosis on Monday with garage but started looking through paper work.**
The full service was carried out by the dealer on the 19th Dec where he should identified there was an issue caused by the fault, some *other issues starting to develop which I hadn’t even flagged at this point but again should have been spotted on service.* In addition as part of the RAC Warranty the dealer has to carry out and 82 point inspection before the plan is live with a number of these faults been picked up here too.* I had no paperwork from dealer on either of these things and to be honest I doubt they’ve be done.
Tuesday the garage confirm fault again.
Advise dealer and put in writing but again gets aggressive with me and then garage.* Dealer adamant fault is from something he repaired nearly a year ago (again I have this in writing from him) and remnants of this (which clearly means he didn’t do the service if this is true).
Dealer then gets legal advice and asks for vehicle to be returned for his own inspection.* He goes on holiday so communication dies down.
On his return (26th Jan) I ask 2 times in 48 hours for findings from full service and RAC Warranty to be sent, he ignores both, now very suspicious of anything that has been done to the vehicle.
I then had the vehicle recovered to VW vans and pay for diagnosis on 30th Jan.* They confirm findings but more problems linked to fault and what would need to be done to resolve as well as finding numerous other issues/faults that should have been highlighted in a full service or the RAC inspection.* VW also found an issue with a part that failed the MOT but was then fixed for it to pass.
Phone dealer to advise, turns very aggressive and we have to terminate call, put in writing.* Email written from his solicitor in reply to my email requesting that we afford him the opportunity to investigate issues with a view to a refund if confirmed.**
Agreed to this on the basis that the vehicle is recovered to his dealership and then looked at a garage of his choice (he does not have the facilities and is a car dealer).* He asks if he can drive the vehicle, I advise I would rather he didn’t but if he accepts full liability for anything that happens his call. *He put all of this in writing to me.
Also agreed that he could do a video inspection of the vehicle at VW to confirm that the vehicle was still in the same condition as when I bought it.
Meet at VW vans as agreed video inspection all went fine, I asked dealer again for paperwork from service, he now claims he didn’t do it even though he has stamped the service log book.* I have kept hold of the service log book.
Dealer leaves and heads back, we set off a few mins later but head in the same direction.* About 10 mins in we see the van in a car park at side of the road with the dealer and his colleague next to the van with the bonnet up.
At the time we couldn’t stop and didn’t want the confrontation and had to pick my son up so dove down to collect him.* We had to go back on the same dual carriage and as we pull on dealer speeds past in van.* We follow and film him travelling at well over 80mph but he then realised we were behind and slowed down.* Got this on video of him driving the van at excessive speed with numerous faults.
He then pulled in to a service station and 5 mins later sends a WhatsApp message showing a video of him at the previous garage doing work on the van.* He was trying to show there wasn’t a problem as he had fixed it with a £3 pair of pliers, felt like he was trying to intimidate us as he didn’t fix anything just pulled a few pipes of the top of the coolant system and drained less than 10% of the system out (fault is causing excessive oil build up in system).
Apologies for the very long story but we’re now at stalemate!
We allowed dealer to fix fault one, but not the next fault.** As it stands we are only 7 days in to our 30 for right to reject for a full refund.
We have asked for a full refund for the confirmed fault but dealer not willing to do this or believe 2 garages confirmation of this.
The dealer repeatedly changes his story, he now claims he didn’t do the service but stamped the book which I would imagine is illegal?
There is a potential MOT issue, not sure this is now a legitimate MOT that the vehicle has.
No evidence that any work has been carried out other than changing a few bulbs for an MOT, dealer cannot provide any paper work to prove otherwise for service and RAC inspection.
The dealer carried out unauthorised work on the vehicle in a cafe car park, he has had the vehicle for 48 hours so worry what else he has done.* I believe any findings from his chosen mechanics are now are invalid and we have evidence he tampered with the vehicle before independent verification of the fault to confirm initial findings.
He was reckless in charge of a vehicle that doesn’t belong to him and who knows what damage it may have caused (main fault is with coolant system of the vehicle).
I can’t understand why he would risk going to court given his actions but have tried everything to reason with him and he won’t budge.
I don’t think I’m worried about having enough evidence it’s whether it’s telling a coherent explanation of everything that has happened!
I’ve not called the dealer out on his practices as I’ve tried not to annoy him but have made it clear about the facts and have all requests / replies documented that tell a clear version of events from our side but mixed from the dealers side which I would imagine won’t look favourable for him if it goes to court?
We’re at the point of issuing notice that we want to now resolve this in court.
Hope this all makes sense, appreciate any thoughts people have!
Thanks
Dave
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * **
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