Faulty boiler

[Bentles]

Boiler installed on 28/6/16
Currently leaks. Reported earlier this month to original installers (combi doctor). Eng visited and quoted £200. Also the boiler makes a loud humming sound which was resolved in warranty last year, however as the engineer was investigating the noise came back and now has started to make that noise intermittently again
Also the system short cycles meaning the boiler will go off and on very quickly and take hours and hours to heat the house.

I feel I have a case under eu consumer law as there was a leak observed and documented at installation, however cd states that was observed before the installation on the old boiler.

Cd have stated that If I do escalate they will counterclaim and I will incur costs. Please advise.

[ostell]

So a fault originally noted has come back. You may be able to claim that the system is not working now.

To give you heart I claimed against an installer for heating not working some 2 1/2 years after installation and won the cost of the install.

[Bentles]

The installer claims that the leak was noted on the previous system.

Hang on on let me post their response;

Dear Mr Bentley

I have been passed your e-mail by my colleague, Lynette and have looked back at the history relating to the boiler currently installed at your property and can comment as follows:
In February 2016 we carried out a Landlord's gas safety inspection on behalf of the previous owner of the property and determined that the boiler installed at that time had all but reached the end of it's safe and serviceable life as a result of corrosion from a minor internal leak and general weather related wear and tear. It was agreed to replace the boiler for a new one and this work was carried out during June 2016. This contract was made between ourselves and the previous owner of the property and was for the direct replacement of the boiler only, no other work being requested by the (then) owner or deemed as necessary by us to the heating system as a whole, based upon the information made available to us at that time. A further gas safety inspection was carried out on 22/02/2017 when the radiators were also vented as it was noted by the tenant that they were cooler at the top. The occasional need to carry out this task not being unusual in an open vented system such as that installed at this property.
In relation to the replacement of the boiler as noted above, our contractual obligations were between ourselves and the then owner, Mr Williams, and extended to the supply and installation of the new boiler, to the existing heating system only. The labour content of the works carried a twelve month warranty and the boiler was covered by it's manufacturer's warranty. As a reputable installer however, we are always happy to be the first to inspect a suspected issue with a boiler which remains under it's manufacturer's warranty, despite it falling outside the warranty which covers the labour element of the installation, in order to first establish that a legitimate claim exists against the manufacturer.
For the avoidance of doubt, issue which relate to the labour element of the installation would best be described as faulty or leaking pipe-work connections to the three pipes which connect directly to the boiler (water flow/return and gas), these being external to the boiler casing, loose electrical connections external to the boiler or such like, whereas issues which would normally fall under the remit of the manufacturer's would be faults or defects within the boiler itself, either as leakages or malfunction.
Further to our most recent visit it would appear that excessive air in the system has resulted in short cycling of the boiler, as would be expected in such circumstances. As noted above it is not considered unusual for this to be a periodic occurrence in such a system (especially at this time of year) and not considered to be a fault. If however it has become a regular occurrence then further works may now be necessary. Our engineer vented the system and reported that having released a substantial amount of air all then operated as expected but offered the option to convert the system to a fully pressurised one, which would possibly help resolve this issue, however as this falls well outside the scope of the original works carried out (over two years ago) it would be chargeable work, should you choose to proceed. It is also worthy of note that excessive gasses within a heating system may also be due to the formation of contamination within the system, despite the addition of a compliant chemical inhibitor at the time that the boiler replacement was carried out and as such a system power flush may now be deemed as advisory, however again as this was not part of the original works mandate and especially considering the time now elapsed since the boiler was installed, then again such work would be chargeable.
The issue of noise appears to be intermittent in nature and having checked the necessary gas pressure and other parameters we are satisfied that despite the time lapse between installation and this issue being reported that no defect exists in the manner in which the boiler was originally installed. With relation to the minor leak also recently noted, as this is contained within the casing of the boiler it must be classified as a manufacturing issue. The fact that the old boiler had a leak can not under any circumstances be considered as legitimate grounds to suggest that this issue was not resolved by the supply and installation of a completely new boiler.
Having checked with the manufacturer's I am informed that the boiler was actually covered by a three year warranty and as such I recommend that you contact the manufacturer, 'Main Heating' to instigate a service call out by them under the terms of their product warranty to address the leak now reported and see what light they can throw on the reported noise issue, although it is worth noting that their terms and conditions stipulate that the boiler be regularly serviced and as we have no record of having been requested to service this appliance we have to make the assumption in suggesting this course of action that this has been carried out by others.
Should you choose to invite an alternate opinion then this is entirely your prerogative, however I would advise as follows.
Any interference within the boiler which falls outside the manufacturer's specified servicing regime may void their remaining warranty.
It is the responsibility of the owner to ensure that the boiler is maintained in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendations and lack of servicing or failure to maintain water quality within the heating system may also render their warranty null and void, please refer to their terms and conditions which will be on their website at 'www.mainheating.co.uk' to ensure that any requested call out will be honoured.
We would not be held liable under any circumstances for any cost incurred by your choice to exercise the above course of action as a result not only of our initial contract and warranty being between ourselves and the purchaser of the boiler, but the fact that our warranty against the labour aspect of these works expired in June 2017, over twelve months ago and during which time no notification was made to us of any defect which could be attributed to either our workmanship or the goods supplied.

I trust the above adequately clarifies our position with regard to your claims and demands made and will assist in the amicable resolution of the issues you have reported, which where possible and within our terms of business and limits of responsibility we will be happy to assist with wherever possible.

Yours sincerely

A McKechnie (Director)

[Bentles]

I draw your attention to the following link that expresses the seller is responsible to adhering to this legislation. Please note I will rely heavily on this together with evidence provided if you chose to defend this case in court.


https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizen...m/index_en.htm

As such I will not be contacting the manufacturer but instead will be continuing with action as stated in my previous email.

As my request for service free of charge under my consumer rights has been denied I will be in contact at a future date with the details of the second opinion received.

I feel I must restate that all costs and repairs will be billed relating to issues reported in warranty and issues that occurred and were documented in warranty (ie the leak)

Regards,
Shaun Bentley.

[Bentles]

Dear Mr Bentley

Without Prejudice.

In reply to your e-mail I would respectfully point out that not only are we fully aware of the various consumer laws which affect our business, we are not, as you claim, refusing or denying service under your assumed consumer rights.

Any course of service must be channeled in the most appropriate manner and to re iterate comments made in my previous e-mail, should any third party, or ourselves, interfere within the boiler outside the scope of the manufacturer's published service schedule whilst it remains under their warranty then there is a possibility that such action would render the manufacturer's warranty null and void. This is a perfectly legitimate stance as any warranty for any mechanical product can only be honoured if obligations published by the manufacturer's of such a product and made available to the consumer at the time of purchase have been adhered to.

As such, should you be unwilling to contact the manufacturer's yourself I am happy to arrange this on your behalf, however from experience we find it more practical for you to arrange any call out by their specialist engineers directly in order that a mutually convenient appointment can be agreed upon. Should you prefer that I arrange such a visit please forward evidence that the appliance has been serviced within the last twelve months by a Gas Safe registered engineer, in accordance with their published maintenance schedule and I will arrange such a visit, as without such evidence they may decline the request.

With regard to any other issues you feel we should be attending to, these are additional works. They are not part of the works which were either necessary, requested by our customer (Mr Williams) at the time the boiler was installed in 2016, agreed upon, or charged for at that time and as such can not be considered as a claim under any warranty either offered or legislative.

Once again I would re iterate that should you choose to instruct a third party then this is your prerogative, however we will not be prepared to cover any costs incurred. Further, should you choose to escalate the matter then we will rigorously defend our position based upon the content of this e-mail and previous correspondence and any costs incurred, which as you will appreciate may be substantial, would form the basis of a counter claim against you.

Once again I trust this will not be necessary and the matter can be amicably resolved by following the procedure already outlined.

Yours sincerely

A McKechnie (Director)

[meellis]

Being a heating engineer myself I can fully understand their stance I am unsure how you feel you have consumer rights when you were not the original client. The manufacturers warranty will still be valid if the service schedule has been complied with as they have stated. Personally I don't rate main boilers and I do not believe that any boiler installed to the manufacturers instructions should exhibit the faults that are described. Excessive air within the system could be due to chemical reaction between the water and the dissimilar metals but it could also indicate that the heating system hasn't been installed correctly and any professional connecting a new boiler into an existing system would be expected to remedy any defects at time of install. Also, there is a requirement by the manufacturers that the system should be cleansed to British standards (usually a powerflush) before install. This being said though doesn't cover the fact that you weren't the client of the original installer so I cannot see how you have a claim against them.

[ostell]

The op didn't mention originally that he was not the purchaser. I agree that this will be difficult to enforce, unless there is something covering this situation on the original contract. Even that guarantee could be said to apply to the original purchaser and no to a third party.

[meellis]

Generally Baxi/Potterton who are main are good with their warranties but as with any of these companies the warranties are subject to terms. Most boilers are advertised with long warranties now, in large print, but the small print gives them a lot of reasons not to honour them.The manufacturer should be the first point of call and if they flag a poor installation then I would feel you are looking at the paperwork concerning the purchase of the property and how it leaves the previous owner who had the work done. My gut feeling is that this is a quick and cheap install so the property could be dealt with, either in sale or re-rental.