Poor Work & delayed deadlines

[Worried2014]

Hi need advice...sorry it's long

Had workmen in to fit fence great job no real issues all on time. We then decided to have a decking laid instead of doing it ourselves. Got an estimated quote end of April, one price for deck boards on the sides another for sleepers

They sent a design plan on 8th May and we replied with changes. Few messages changed over 10th May. They then sent a final quote on 11th May and we questioned a few bits got a small reduction due to not wanting handrails. We agreed dates.

On 13th we agreed to have materials a little earlier than the job to not disturb neighbours having to go through their gardens (right of access)

We sent more pictures 14th after we cleared old decking and photos of measurments as we were concerned price may change as needed a little longer than originally stated but no change in price

We paid agreed amount for materials on 15th May. Sent a couple of questions and was told they would go through everything when they come with materials.

1st issue was we asked on the Friday what time materials were coming and was told should be arriving today. Messaged again at 17.06 & 21.45 but no response. Next day was told problem with delivery and will be in touch then chased again in the evening and get a story saying ordered materials for wrong date and trying to sort out.

28th May we were told they couldn't get delivery until Thursday, 6 days later than planned and 2 days after job should start, and promised deck will be ready to use at the weekend. Said boss would be there early Thursday morning

Thursday 31st at 9.56 they message saying they were going to COLLECT the materials. Arrived around 11am without the boss

Then after they finally measured they said it was even longer (not sure how that happened) and would be another £80. They did some work and left at 3pm and promised to be here early next day between 8.30-9am

Friday morning boss asks for the extra material money at 9.44am and we asked where they were, gets excuses about another job. We make it clear we are not happy with poor time on site and extra money due to them not measuring before agreeing a figure. Arrive around 12pm again with no boss and more excuses.

Friday at 12.49 he asks for husbands number, which he has, and then asks him to send photos of the job so far after his lads leave.

They left at 15.55pm and boss says he needs stuff from suppliers that closes at 5pm. We send photos of lots of issues we have found....poorly cut wood, no drain hatches and get promised it will be tidied up tomorrow.

At 16.45 boss asks for extra materials money again. Husband says he will pay when job complete.

Saturday morning 8.58 boss says he was working until 11pm on Friday (not on our job) and he needs the money to complete the job. Husband asks if that means they still don't have materials and still not about to arrive to work. Get told they'll be there at 10.30am. Husband repeats how unhappy we are, but pays the £80 extra

more excuses about another job. They arrive around 12.15 and leave at 4pm. I make it clear if the job is not finished today I refuse to pay the outstanding bill. The boss leaves not caring but another lad promises to return.

we sent more photos of really poor workmanship which is ignored. We point out the sleepers are too small for steps as we had to step sideways and lots of issues.

Guy returned around 7pm and let himself in the garden with his girlfriend to help...not great as my 5yr old autistic son in garden at the time.

He has worked until 9pm and we have agreed to some things to finish the deck area to be done tomorrow and the Steps to be replaced on Monday.

My question finally is what rights do we have over the final payment. If it is finished on Monday to our standard, which is not extreme just as good as we could have done with little experience, can I still refuse to add the extra £80 to the final payment (so as paid we would deduct from the agreed amount) and can we request discount due to time delays etc? They have taken up our entire half-term and we have had to put off a visit from family


if you made it this far thanks for reading

worried2014

[Worried2014]

Well the guy returned on sunday and the damaged work has mainly been hidden by a trim. There are a couple of dodgy bits that we can live with.

However they were supposed to arrive today at 10am to complete work. At 11.30 he arrives in a car stating his van has broken down and so cannot collect goods to complete the job. Promised it was being fixed and he would be here later and work as long as it takes to complete the job. We got a text that afternoon to say it would be ready at 4pm then another at 4.40pm to say it wasn't fixed and he can complete job tomorrow

He knows we have other work being complete tomorrow and there will be no access to the garden. He says we are being unreasonable not allowing more time in the circumstances.

please can I have opinions: are we being unreasonable, should we be allowing more time even though I'm sure it is just another story/excuse.

Can we say they have broken contract and refuse to pay the final payment....They have had £710 already

thanks

Worried2014

[des8]

IMO you should be trying to come to an amicable agreement for a reduction.
This contract will be covered by the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (chapter 4) but unless you had a contract in which time was of the essence, I think you would have difficulty pursuing this successfully through the courts, and even if you did and won, any compensation would probably be derisory and not worth the hassle

tagging R0b

[Worried2014]

Am I within my rights not to have them complete the job? We are prepared not to be compensated but do not want to pay more.

They have been one story after another and really poor work. Half the time has been repairing poor work. They have had over 2/3 of the money and we were due to pay the rest on completion. They were aware we had other work starting tomorrow and they would not be able to access the garden. We have been delaying completion everyday since Saturday. I have contacted trading standards. We have messages of the agreement and photos of all the issues.

Thanks

[Worried2014]

So could they pursue us for the outstanding amount?

[des8]

They could, but whether they would is a different question.
On the basis that the o/s amount is c£200 and you have a possible counter claim for compensation for delays and inconvenience they might decide it's not worthwhile.
As they cannot access the garden, how do they propose to complete the work?
Presumably there is access via the house.

I would not refuse point blank to pay the outstanding amount, but would use the poor standard of work and the delays etc to negotiate a reduction.
If they threaten court, just warn them you will counterclaim and advise negotiation will be easier for them.

[Worried2014]

I have no idea how they think they can do it...I have a small terraced cottage style house and do not fancy 8ft sleepers' being carried through my kitchen.

They keep messaging saying they are willing to do the work tomorrow and are ignoring us saying there will be no access. Truth is there is a small chance our paths will be done on Wednesday not tomorrow but we have promised access and so don't want them to arrive and be unable to do the work as planned.

The problem is they have made so many promises and not followed through so if I could give them another chance they could again let us down. They seem to only work between 11-4.

The job so far has been based on how they want to do it not what we want and if we question it they say 'we're saving you money' but we would rather they had given us a choice. They have not left gaps in the deck which most DIY stores recommend. They have installed 3 cheap thin sleepers at half the price of the ones they were supposed to be replacing them with to comply with step tread. We have one missing altogether and one correct. So if we go and buy the four needed, that would cost a little less than what we were still to pay.

They have whacked 8 posts in the ground to hold the sleepers, not concreted in and some not even straight and then placed very roughly cut deck board pieces on the side' (looks awful)

Husband is concerned they may get nasty. I just cannot keep giving more and more chances but do not want to break the law by not paying them the original agreed amount.

worried2014

[Worried2014]

Oh and they brought tools just to do our job and have left them here. I asked them to collect tonight but have been told they can't as no van. ....even though the partner is currently house sitting around the corner

[des8]

So it is not just about poor time keeping, but also about poor workmanship and not supplying the materials as agreed.

In that case I would be writing to them to point out what the agreement was, where they have failed and the now near impossibility of them completing.
Tell them that you require them to perform the contract in full, and failure to do so will result in you initiating court action for breach of contract, and you will be claiming damages which will cover the cost of hiring a professional firm to redo &/or complete their work.

PS their excuse about lack of transport would not IMO be a valid excuse. Any half decent outfit would hire a replacement whilst their own is repaired1

[R0b]

Sorry, late to the party.

I think Des has covered pretty much everything that needs to be said. There's clearly a number of issues at stake here, poor workmanship, lack of reasonable care and skill, trespassing (with their equipment left on your land).

I think you have already given enough chances to them to sort the problem out but as you have now agreed to give them further time on Wednesday, I don't think you can just back out. If the work is not completed and they have to come back again then I think this is where you write a letter to them and informing them of all of the issues that you have experienced (which I hope you have documented) and despite several chances to make good, they have caused delays or needed to come out on further separate occasions because the job was not completed properly or at all.

You should then specifically inform them that you are making time of the essence to complete the job according to the standard and design that was agreed under the Consumer Rights Act 2015. Due to the delays caused by them, you are seeking a price reduction of X amount and therefore do not consider the outstanding balance to be owed (or a reduced outstanding balance). Should they fail to complete the job, then you consider it to be a repudiatory breach (a fundamental breach) and so you will terminate the agreement and source an alternative contractor to finish the works which you will seek to recover any additional costs from them.

Out of curiosity, is the "workmen" a limited company or a self employed or some other kind of business structure?

[Worried2014]

Hi

Rob we have not allowed them more time, we were due to have other workers in today or tomorrow (is the latter now)

We messaged them stating they were in breach of their contract undwr the consumers rights act blah blah and due to all the issues (we listed them) We think we should agree to terminate the contract and they accept the monies paid as full and final payment for materials and fitting to date. We then need to purchase materials elsewhere to complete the work and arrange our own installation.

At first they responded saying if we want all the money back they want the materials returned

Then they read properly and said if we wish to terminate then that is our choice but they would of liked to finish the work and resolve the issue. (Probably at their convenience)

I took that as they accepted the contract is terminated and we pay no more.

They have still not collected their tools and I'm not sure what I can do about that. On further research I'm sure the steps would have lasted only a few weeks before becoming dangerous as the fittings are completely wrong.

Thanks for the advice...my day has been a lot less stressful today

[Worried2014]

Rob

not registered with company's house so soul trader?

We used them for one job which they did no problem but this job shows a lack of experience and knowledge.

thanks

worried2014

[des8]

Thanks for letting us know the result.
Regarding the tools, you need to take reasonable care of them until they are collected.
If they fail to collect their tools you will need to write to them, giving them a deadline to collect them, and telling them that failure will lead to you disposing of them.
You do this by offering them for sale at auction.
From the proceeds you can deduct your costs, and send them the balance (or retain it until they ask for it).

Are the tools actually worth anything?

[Worried2014]

Thanks they have been safely locked in the shed, where they placed them on Sunday. We have heard nothing more from them today. I'll give them a couple of days to collect and then send them a deadline. I don't think they are high end tools but one at least was purchased to do our job, so new. We saw them unpacked it from its box

[Worried2014]

So is leaving their tools trespassing? Just thinking how I may word the message to encourage collection of their things, and their bags of rubbish they have left behind.