HCEO Notice of Seizure - HELP!

[Country Bumpkin]

I'm wondering if anyone can give me some advice please?

My partner's business incurred a debt (ironically on behalf of someone else who is now refusing to pay). Demands for repayment were sent to a previous address where the business was registered. He had moved from this address and although was getting personal mail forwarded, some of his business mail wasn't forwarded.

The debt has now been handed by the High Court to an HCEO (Andrew Wilson & Co) and we have been given a notice of seizure (High Court form no 55).

We are not intending to dispute payment as the goods were supplied and the fact that the person who requested them hasn't paid for them, is not the suppliers issue but ours.

The problem we are facing is that as my partner works for himself and cash flow is sporadic, we currently do not have the money to settle the debt though intend to repay it as soon as we can. We do not own goods in the house currently to the value of the debt so even if the bailiff were to seize goods they wouldn't recoup the money.

My partner has been trying to stall the bailiffs and we have been trying to see if we can raise the money to repay the debt but have now run out of time and the HCEO is saying they will call any time soon to seize goods

Is there anything we can do to stop the process and reach some sort of agreement whereby we can repay a debt that is owed. Unfortunately my partner didn't really try and work out all the options as he was trying to get the cash together to pay for something that was not only unexpected but arrived in the form of a High Court order as we had obviously missed the final demands so time was against us from the moment the debt was handed to the HCEO. I've only just discovered the existence of N244 and N245. Are either of these of any use in our current situation or is there anything else we could and should be doing given the circumstances?

The HCEO is pretty aggressive in terms of pursuing the payment. I would be very grateful for any help, advice or experience!

Thanks.

[ploddertom]

Re: HCEO Notice of Seizure - HELP!

Is he visiting your home or does your OH have sepaprate premises? What status does he trade as?

[Country Bumpkin]

Re: HCEO Notice of Seizure - HELP!

HCEO is visiting home as I think business now registered here. No separate premises and he trades as a ltd company.

[ploddertom]

Re: HCEO Notice of Seizure - HELP!

OK, I'll be back in an hour or two has have to go out.

[ploddertom]

Re: HCEO Notice of Seizure - HELP!

If he is a Ltd Co was the original CCJ & High Court Writ made out correctly? Does he have any Company effects at home? Did he sign for the goods owing as a Personal Guarantee?

[Country Bumpkin]

Re: HCEO Notice of Seizure - HELP!

I'm not sure if the original CCJ & High Court Writ were made out correctly. I don't know what this would involve, I'm afraid, as we've not been in this situation before but I assumed they were correct. No company effects as all he really uses is his lap top. I don't think he signed for the goods as a personal guarantee but they were some tickets bought through his business as it was (ironically!) the most cost effective way of buying them.

[Country Bumpkin]

Re: HCEO Notice of Seizure - HELP!

I just have to go out for a bit but welcome any further response so will check a bit later. The HCEO fees we've had applied to the writ seem rather excessive too. £1414 on an original debt of £3800. Is is possible to check or query these as, while we want to pay the original debt which is entirely legitimate, I want to limit any remuneration given to the bailiffs!

[ploddertom]

Re: HCEO Notice of Seizure - HELP!

Don't worry about the fees for now. The main issue at present is what to do & how to do it. No doubt as you know they may only seize any assets belonging to the Ltd Co and if there are none then the Writ is defeated.

The HCEO has no automatic right of entry to your home and it is essential you keep it like this. Once he gains entry it could be a different ball game as he will try to argue that different goods can be seized. Of particualr note is to keep any car(s) well out of the way unless you have documentation that proves ownership.

[ploddertom]

Re: HCEO Notice of Seizure - HELP!

You said before you had 2 forms - N244 & N245.

The most important issue at present is to halt the HCEO in his tracks. You may do this by applying for a Stay of Execution that if granted halts all further HCEO enforcement or action. This is done on N244 & cost of the application is £80 unless on certain Benefits or low wage - Form EX160a & 160c are used for this.

The N245 can be used to apply for a Variation Order - but I think as a Ltd Co you would have to show extreme hardship. Anyway if there are no assets then again the debt dies in the interim.

[CleverClogs]

Re: HCEO Notice of Seizure - HELP!

How can a limited company (other than RBS, possibly) be on state benefits? :grin:

[Country Bumpkin]

Re: HCEO Notice of Seizure - HELP!

Thanks for all the help to date on this. It seems from what I've read that, as the company has no assets and the debt has been incurred by the company not my partner as an individual, that there is nothing which can be seized. Am I right and is that still the case if the company is registered to my partner's private address? We absolutely want to settle the debt and have contacted the creditor directly to tell them that we wish to pay the debt. Can the debt now only be paid to the HCEO? According to a bit of research I've done the HCEO fees levied are excessive (around £1440 against the original debt of £3800). Can we refuse to pay these? Any further advice would be much appreciated!

[CleverClogs]

Re: HCEO Notice of Seizure - HELP!

Unless the company had been trading whilst insolvent and therefore judgement had been obtained against the owners or directors of the company, there is really no way that the HCEO may lawfully seize your monies, securities, goods or chattels; he is not even entitled to benefit from your exhaled air.

The company is, in law, a separate entity from its directors, regardless of where it might be registered. Try to think of it as a lodger; if a lodger or guest in your house owed money and had a CCJ against him, could any of your property be taken to be sold in settlement of that debt?

Use this Statutory Declaration, adapted from the second Statutory Declaration from the "Useful Letters" page, at http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...Useful-Letters

You'll need to edit it a bit to add your details and the format will need to be adjusted to allow for the signatures and other writing, but it should be good enough. Once you've done that, print it out and take it to a Notary Public or Commissioner for Oaths - most solicitors will do this, for about £10 - and go through the (brief) procedure with him. Get several signed and sealed or certified photocopies, as you'll need to give one to the HCEO when his porky, red face next appears; send another to his office.


B.STATUTORY DECLARATION

I, [INSERT NAME] residing at [ADDRESS AND POSTCODE]

make the following declaration under the Statutory Declarations Act 1835:

All monies, securities and other items contained within the property at the above address and within its boundaries, are owned exclusively by Mr XXX XXXX & Mrs XXX XXXX . There are no monies, securities or other items within the property or its boundaries belonging to any other person or any company.

I understand that a person who intentionally makes a false statement in a statutory declaration is guilty of an offence under section 11 of the Statutory Declarations Act 1835, and I believe that the statements in this declaration are true in every particular.

Signed


Declared at___________________on__________________of __________________________________________________ ____
Before me,

<Signature of person before whom the declaration is made>

Full Name___________________________Qualification______ ______

Address___________________________________________ _______

of person before whom the declaration is made (in printed letters)

__________________________________________________

__________________________________________________

_____________________________________________

[ploddertom]

Re: HCEO Notice of Seizure - HELP!

I wouldn't worry at all about the fees because as has been said there are no assets or anything to seize and eventually the HCEO will have to return the Writ to your Creditor - they will have an abortive fee to pay. Only after this happens should you approach the creditor to pay direct. If you do it before then that gives sufficient impetus for the HCEO to continue and anyway if you pay the Creditor direct at this stage they may just pass it on to the HCEO anyway as they could become liable for any fees themselves.

[ploddertom]

Re: HCEO Notice of Seizure - HELP!

You can only know if the fees are excessive if you know what they are claiming to have done.

[Country Bumpkin]

Re: HCEO Notice of Seizure - HELP!

Thanks v much to both of you, ploddertom and CleverClogs. Will take your respective advice. Thanks for the form as I was slightly concerned that we have a garage which is detached from the main house so I know that this could be broken into though nothing in it belongs to the company. However my understanding was that the assumption on the part of the bailiffs that anything in the building they are visiting is fair game and you have to prove that it isn't owned by the person they are pursuing. However, just wanted to check (more for point of clarification than because it refers to this specifically) that they can't break in until the walking possession order is signed or is it simply after they've been let in once? all seems rather confusion and archaic!

Just to be clear, plodder tom, are you saying that as there are no assets if we just sit tight the writ all have to be returned to the creditor at which point we can pay them?