Licence or lease

[Carlo]

Hello

I have been renting a workshop off my landlord for eighteen years, and also supply work for them guaranteed to cover my rent. When we first moved in we entered into an oral lease with no problems over all these years. Now my landlord no longer wishes to purchase off my company (his company has changed direction) and wishes to get out of his agreement.

To do this he served me a notice to quit, with a three month limit. stating that we have a licence to occupy.

I wrote back to his solicitors asking them why they had not served a notice 25 of the landlord and tenant act as we were protected by the security of tenure.

We gave the reason for this as we have exclusive possession on the building. We have our own locks to which we have the only keys, we are the only ones who know the code to the alarm, and in 18 years the landlord has never entered the property without us being present, and have only ever entered as our customers, not officially as our landlords.

Their solicitor replied that she believes we have a licence, because our landlords, who are also our customers have entered our building to collect work, and they have never been refused entry.

My reply to this was, why would i refuse any of my customers to come into my building to collect work when i was open? She refuses to comment on the fact we have the only keys, and we are the only ones who know the code to the alarm.

Clearly under her interpretation it would mean that no shop in the entire country could possibly have a lease, as their landlord could walk in any time they were open.

It is quite clear we have a lease, but i do not want to wait until the end of the notice to quit to have to prove this (we have lots of large machines that take specialists to move) so I went to the county court to ask for a form to get a judgement whether we had a licence or a lease. The receptionist asked me for the number of the form I needed. I told her i did not know the number, but explained what it was about so she could give me the appropriate form. she informed me that she could not give me legal advice, so would not give me a form unless I knew which number it was.

Please could someone advise me what form I would need to ask a judge to make a ruling that I have a lease and not a licence.

Thank you very much

Carl

[Peridot]

Re: Licence or lease

Hi Carlo,
It sounds like you have grasped the basic differences between leases and licences. It is unfortunately a pretty complicated area where even if there was a written agreement in place the Courts could find that the reverse was true ie it is a lease not a licence and vice versa.
Various pointers such as exclusive occupation which you have already flagged and for example, whether you pay business rates or not can indicate whether this would be classed as a lease or a licence. It is a thin line between the two and there have been cases where even with exclusive occupation the Court still found the occupation to be under licence.
I don't believe this is as straightforward as completing a form for filing at Court. It may involve an application to the Court by you, against the Landlord.
There may be some other people on the forum who have a view or some other pointers for you. I would recommend face to face legal advice if for no other reason than to give you an idea how much this could cost you to go to Court for a determination and the likely risks the Court would not find in your favour. At least you can then weigh up the costs of both scenarios, fighting this notice and/or accepting it and looking for alternative premises?
If the Court found in your favour there would be more protections available to you as a commercial property under the Landlord & Tenant Act 1954, but you may still have to re-locate (although there may be some compensation for this, if you prove you have a lease).
I would strongly recommend that you obtain some legal advice from a landlord and tenant specialist to assess the likelihood of your being successful in arguing this is a lease situation and the cost to you of taking this step.

[Carlo]

Re: Licence or lease

Thank you for your very quick response to my question

The cost to move is astronomical, therefore it is my intention to fight this in court, but i would rather take the initiative and get the issue on lease v licence sorted before the time period for the notice to quit is up, as the costs to move at short notice will be even higher than if i have more time.

Could you please advise, if you know what form i would need to put this decision before the courts, i know it can be done as there are several instances online where they have asked a judge this very question.

Or do i just seek an injunction to prevent my landlords carrying out the notice to quit?

Many thanks in advance.

Carl