Stock damaged by 3rd Party

[Rhothgar]

Good afternoon,

We store with a company called Alligator Storage (Alligator Self Storage Centres Limited).

We have been a very good customer since February 2008 and paid them in the region of £30,000 for our warehousing space.

On Monday of last week, I went down to find that one of our unit doors was damaged. I found out from one of the Assistant Managers there that a guy had fallen off a dock and back into the door.

I managed to get it open as it had wedged tight where the metal door had gone in too far. Hard to explain and possibly no need.

A whole stack of electronic stock which was stored behind one of the double doors had been toppled by this and has resulted in clear damage to some of the stock units. We have taken photos and have yet to clear the mess caused until we get some kind of go ahead from Alligator themselves.

The Assistant Manager Gemma who is reasonably new was unaware of how to deal with this so she escalated it to her more long standing Assistant Manager colleague Angela Barker who failed to do anything. Gemma took ownership of this on Friday when I went down again as I was concerned as to why I had not been contacted about this.

She contacted their Operations Manager, Simon Turner, who essentially said this was our responsibility to sort out with the 3rd Party who fell into the door.

As we pay insurance on a block policy to Alligator, then surely this is something they should be dealing with.

As you can imagine it is annoying to say the least that this company is reluctant to actually take any responsibility when it is they who are responsible for who they let on site. It is a secure site with coded access.

What is the best way to deal with this unprofessional company?

[vanman]

Re: Stock damaged by 3rd Party

Company Details
All legal matters regarding Alligator Self Storage and its subsidiary undertakings should be addressed to:

Alligator Self Storage
140 Balgreen Road
Edinburgh
EH12 5XQ
Company Registration Number: SC294295
VAT Registration Number: 991 275 195

---

Complaints
Alligator is committed to exercising and maintaining high levels of customer services, including our sales administration (both on and off-line), and the handling of any customer complaints or suggestions

In the unlikely event you feel you wish to make a complaint, or if you have any suggestions on how we can improve our service, please email website@alligatorstorage.co.uk or write to us at the following address:

Complaints
Alligator Self Storage
140 Balgreen Road
Edinburgh
EH12 5XQ


We promise to acknowledge your complaint within 2 working days of receipt and will always aim to resolve any issues within 28 working days

http://www.alligatorstorage.co.uk/insurance-details

[des8]

Re: Stock damaged by 3rd Party

Can you post up a copy of your storage agreement, and the block policy?

I would guess that like couriers, they have very limited contractual liability, and it is up to the customers to insure their goods.
(Just looked at their T&Cs and yes, you have to prove their negligence)
Who fell and caused the damage. Was he a customer or unauthorised intruder? Where did he fall from? (was there a H&S issue for which the storage company were responsible?)

I note (from Vanman's link) that the mandatory insurance cover for electronic goods is limited to £10,000 . (Do you have separate commercial cover in place?)
It says perils covered include "impact", but that normally refers to road vehicles (but need to see full wording) & not unbalanced peeps
Accidental damage excluded

[Rhothgar]

Re: Stock damaged by 3rd Party

Can you post up a copy of your storage agreement, and the block policy?

I would guess that like couriers, they have very limited contractual liability, and it is up to the customers to insure their goods.
(Just looked at their T&Cs and yes, you have to prove their negligence)
Who fell and caused the damage. Was he a customer or unauthorised intruder? Where did he fall from? (was there a H&S issue for which the storage company were responsible?)

I note (from Vanman's link) that the mandatory insurance cover for electronic goods is limited to £10,000 . (Do you have separate commercial cover in place?)
It says perils covered include "impact", but that normally refers to road vehicles (but need to see full wording) & not unbalanced peeps
Accidental damage excluded

Thanks vanman for posting up the link. Funnily enough, they could have referred me to this on Monday of last week or even Friday or any day in between that suited them.

A complaint would fall on deaf ears I'm afraid with this company.

We told them we are not paying our rent until this is sorted. Next payment due today actually and nothing but silence still other than we received an email yesterday from their Area Manager stating that from 1st November our rent is going up 50% approx.. They are a bunch to be honest.

[Rhothgar]

Re: Stock damaged by 3rd Party

Can you post up a copy of your storage agreement, and the block policy?

I would guess that like couriers, they have very limited contractual liability, and it is up to the customers to insure their goods.
(Just looked at their T&Cs and yes, you have to prove their negligence)
Who fell and caused the damage. Was he a customer or unauthorised intruder? Where did he fall from? (was there a H&S issue for which the storage company were responsible?)

I note (from Vanman's link) that the mandatory insurance cover for electronic goods is limited to £10,000 . (Do you have separate commercial cover in place?)
It says perils covered include "impact", but that normally refers to road vehicles (but need to see full wording) & not unbalanced peeps
Accidental damage excluded

I am just about to upload the documents I have.

The contract was first taken up with Storage King who were bought out by Alligator. It shows a unit of 80 sq ft. which we had for a set period of time before moving to a larger unit. Then we took another unit on and finally the 3rd unit which is where the damage was caused.

It is an outside removals firm acting on behalf of another storer that fell and caused the damage so he was not a customer. The site is secured by CCTV and pin code access. Was he therefore an unauthorised intruder? I cannot say. In my opinion, they should be vetting any removals company that needs access prior to them having access to ensure that they have public liability insurance but Alligator simply said they cannot control who comes on site. Well! They do control who comes on site because it is a secured site.

Of course, they could do it easily by asking all visitors to sign in and ensure they ask customers to notify them if they are bringing a professional company on site to assist them. It's not difficult to have a database of companies and check they have Public Liability.

As I understand it, the removals guy either fell from the dock opposite our unit which has no barrier or perhaps lost his footing. I believe he must have fallen from the dock as he could not have caused the impact damage to the steel door if he fell on it sideways. I don't consider that there would have been enough force.

We do not have separate commercial cover in place as it was almost impossible to get cover commercially which is why we moved the stock from home (where we started operating) to a commercial storage centre.

We had a conversation with them which is of more concern. We told them that we are not paying the rent on that particular unit until they take responsibility for this and show some interest. They have said they will overlock our units I believe. We have 3 units and we do not intend to pay on the unit where the damage was caused. I am told that they will overlock all 3 apparently.

We pay rent on the 1st of the month on the unit concerned and on the 18th of the month on the other 2 units. I do not see how they can legally restrict access to units that are paid up until 18th.

[wales01man]

Re: Stock damaged by 3rd Party

Can I suggest changing where you store the goods and take action through the courts for damages .
I cant understand how anyone can fall through a Locked steel door do you have pictures of the damaged door?you may need this to make a case.

[Rhothgar]

Re: Stock damaged by 3rd Party

Can I suggest changing where you store the goods and take action through the courts for damages .
I cant understand how anyone can fall through a Locked steel door do you have pictures of the damaged door?you may need this to make a case.

We are in the process of doing so.

The guy did not fall through it but really out a good dent in it and I had to use brute force to get the door open because of how it was.

We have told them we are not paying the rent on that unit and they have already simply chosen to add a late charge.

Please can you advise on what basis can this go through the courts if they are blaming a 3rd party?

I asked for copy of contract and block policy. They cannot find one contract and I have scanned the initial contract but cannot work out how to delete my details from it. I may have to convert it to a JPG later on.

Also

[Rhothgar]

Re: Stock damaged by 3rd Party

Additional Attachments.

[Rhothgar]

Re: Stock damaged by 3rd Party

First Page of Storage Agreement though bear in mind they cannot find the contract with them (only the Storage King one)

[righty]

Re: Stock damaged by 3rd Party

Commercial premises are required by law to know the number of people in them at any given time. This is to facilitate the emergency services so that they will be able to account for everyone (or not) AND that's why you sign and print your name in a visitors book

[des8]

Re: Stock damaged by 3rd Party

Just come in and had quick look at documentation.
Really need to see full ins policy wording. The "summary" doesn't define what they mean by impact, so the wording might be helpful.
I'll look at the agreements later, when I've cleaned up (been under car!) and eaten

In the meantime though my initial thoughts are:
So an employee of another company, which was accessing the site, caused the damage.
IMO you should be investigating those circumstances further.
The damage was caused by a third party who was employed by a company. That company is almost bound to have public liability insurance.
I would be considering claiming against that third party and his employers, as presumably the third party was on his employer's business,
In line with Wales comment , how on earth did he manage to dent steel doors to such an extent. Was his company taking reasonable safety precautions, or was there horseplay?

[des8]

Re: Stock damaged by 3rd Party

Scottish Law!
It seems that your claim should be against the renter of the unit who was employing the removal firm, but if Alligator refuse to give you their details IMO you might have a slim case against Alligator.
They say that each renter is liable for damage they or their agents cause to other renters.
Obviously one cannot take action against those who cause damage if you cannot identify them. Presumably Alligator can, but they undertake not to pass personal details to third parties, so they won't tell you who caused damage to your goods.
One would assume then that they will pursue the guilty party and reimburse you .This ties up with T&C 9.7

T&C 2 Your Rights to use the units, it seems the T&Cs make each renter liable for damage they, or their agents may cause to others. "Only you and persons ... accompanied by you will be allowed to have access to the unit. Any such person is your agent for whose actions you are responsible and liable to us and other users of units on the site"
T&C 9.7 is also interesting in that it suggests that if a user damages other user's goods they will have to reimburse Alligator for costs involved.(i,.e. Alligator will obtain reimbursement for the renter whose goods are damaged)
T&C 19 Alligator are liable for nothing
T&G 29 Alligator won't share personal information with third parties

Hope this helps, will see if I can find any case law, but as this is Sots law>>>>>>>>>>>

[righty]

Re: Stock damaged by 3rd Party

Alligator will obtain reimbursement for the renter whose goods are damaged) Does this not mean that Alligator ARE accepting liability in that they must obtain compensation from the negligent party, particularly if they are going to refuse to provide details of the said party by hiding behind the DPA

[des8]

Re: Stock damaged by 3rd Party

Please note I paraphrased 9.7 and I can see lawyers having a right old time discussing the meaning!
But otherwise I was suggesting along the same lines as Righty

[wales01man]

Re: Stock damaged by 3rd Party

I can see where this is going next.
Alligator will claim they do not know who the third part is!
Time for a Solicitor to go through their terms and conditions to advise the way the terms are written it would confuse many a legal brain looking for faults would be the best way forward.

As these companies are all competing against each other on price they will keep it cheap to use and hard to claim loos or damage to goods stored. Legal will be the only remedy if they persist in resisting a claim
is the value of the goods sufficient to warrant spending money on a case?