Landlords and Tenants Act 1954 (as amended) Industrial Unit

[tiswas01]

Hello.
I would be very grateful for any assistance/guidance with regard to the following issue:

I have for the last 7 years rented a small industrial unit for my car maintenance business.
I have never signed a lease of any description.
I pay my rent which includes electricity and rates promptly every month by cheque.
My business has grown so I am currently in the process of purchasing my own freehold unit on the same industrial site.

My current landlord has told me that under The Landlords and Tenants Act 1954 (as amended) I must give 3 clear calender months notice of any intention to vacate, failing which I would be required to pay the rental for any shortfall. I have waded throught the Act and this Forum (glad I found it) but still cannot see that he is correct in what he is saying.

Many thanks for your thoughts.

GT

[Crazy council]

Re: Landlords and Tenants Act 1954 (as amended) Industrial Unit

Hi.

I have for the last 7 years rented a small industrial unit for my car maintenance business.
I have never signed a lease of any description.

Did you pay any rent in advance and/or deposit. In a commercial lease, you usually have the break periods in the contract.. The notice periods usually change after the first break period. As you are seven years into this lease, you would have passed any assumed breack period.

My current landlord has told me that under The Landlords and Tenants Act 1954 (as amended) I must give 3 clear calender months notice of any intention to vacate,

It would be hard for the LL to keep you to that because you don't have a lease, but, if you paid any rent in advance or deposit, it could be assumed, that you understood by that, that there should be some notice period.

If your truly not on a lease or an assumed lease, he could not keep you to that, and would be hard to take you to court, but, if he did, am guessing that the judge might consider, any rent in advance woud be a guid for the notice period. IE. if you paid 3 months advance rent, probably the judge would assume this be the reasonable notice period.

I suppose it all depends on the amount of monthly rent,advance paid and if its worth fighting over.

Its a stupid thing for both LL and Tenant not to have a contract on a commercial. More stupid for the LL than for the tenant. Its the notice and liability periods that are locked in on the contracts.

[tiswas01]

Re: Landlords and Tenants Act 1954 (as amended) Industrial Unit

Hi Crazy council.
Thank you for responding so quickly. Firstly, I must agree with you about being stupid entering into renting without an agreement.

I can confirm that I am not on a lease or an assumed lease. As previously stated I pay the rent which includes an amount for electricity and rates promptly on the due date every month.
Having had your response, I did a bit more googling and believe my situation may be regarded as a Periodic Tenancy. Therefore, to terminate the premises, I would have to give 1 month notice period.
As the rent is £800 per month any money saved would be welcomed. I assume that Periodic Tenancies still fall under the umbrella of The Landlords and Tenants Act 1954.
Would you please be kind enough to confirm if my assumptions are correct. Once again please accept my thanks for responding.

Many thanks.

GT

[Crazy council]

Re: Landlords and Tenants Act 1954 (as amended) Industrial Unit

I will check that later in the week against the act, but the term periodic tenancy, would arise if you signed a 6 months lease, and it continues afterwards. Probably not in this case as you did not sign any agreement at the start. ( more a private tenancy than commercial, althoug can be both )

Its hard to give you definite answers because of the lack of contract, but, i really do think the LL would struggle to take you to court, for only giveing 1 months notice, and would cost him more than the other 2 months. If it did get to court, i assume the judge would ask the question i did, in relation to deposit/advance paid.

1 month or none, 1 months notice due
2 months = 2 month notice
ect ect

When i say, assumed contract..... i mean more the rules of common sense that a judge would consider that anyone entering into a agreement would assume. At lower courts, disputes like this, unless there is a firm legal point, tend to be considered as common sense by a judge.

My starting point would be how much ( if any ) advance or deposit was paid at the start. If this was none, a month, but if it was 2 months or 3, i suspect that the judge would consider that the appropriate period.

[tiswas01]

Re: Landlords and Tenants Act 1954 (as amended) Industrial Unit

Hi Crazy council.
Many thanks again. I am very grateful for your help and guidance. Very pleased that I found this site and you!!

GT

[tiswas01]

Re: Landlords and Tenants Act 1954 (as amended) Industrial Unit

HI Crazy council
I very sorry to chase you. But would be extremely to know if you have managed to found out anything regarding 1 month period tenancy as relating to The Landlords and Tenants Act 1954.
I have gone through Section II on the Act so many times and start to get a bit giddy re the legal jargon. Many thanks and sorry to give you hassle.

GT

[Crazy council]

Re: Landlords and Tenants Act 1954 (as amended) Industrial Unit

Hi

I have to await someone checking. there is loads of case law to around that act, and, like i said, its very difficult without a contract. But initially, it seems that without a contract on commercial, you may be a periodic lease or lease at will. I need to do a bit more checking and get some confirmation before i give you a firm suggestion.

Both my friends that are still agents asked the same question i did

deposit/advance paid.

I will post back when i have something firm,

The difficulty is understanding how your particular tenancy would be deemed.... and a lot of that would depend on the implied rent periods. Monthly, three monthly, or yearly. That does not necessarily mean payment periods. You say no lease or contract, was there any paperwork served, anything that would give any type of review period. Does any of the original paperwork quote the rent monthly or yearly

If hes asking for 3 months, there treating it like a 6 month or 12 month periodic, with rent due quarterly ( even of you pay it monthly ) .... but he would need some paperwork to back that up. Not necessarily a lease to argue it with, but anything in the paperwork exchange between you prior to commencment that mentions the rent as quarterly or more, might back him up.

although, if ther eis nothing in the paperwork to imply the periods, then you may be correct at a month.....

2 things i need to know

1. Deposit/advance paid
2. any mention of rent periods in any of the origional documentation

[tiswas01]

Re: Landlords and Tenants Act 1954 (as amended) Industrial Unit

Hi Crazy council.
Thanks again for responding so quickly. To help to give a clearer picture I thought it useful to let you know the following. My landlord and I were good friends going back 7 years ago. He was already established in the motor vehicle maintenance business. I had just started out really working from home. He offered me a unit right next to his. I put some work his way if I was over loaded and he would do the same in return.

I can confirm that right from day one of me starting in the unit I paid no deposit or any money in advance. No documentation has ever been given to me or exchanged between us relating to rent periods. I pay my rent for the unit which includes electricity and the local rate promptly at the end of each month. This has prevailed for 7 years.

Twelve months ago a larger unit 2 units away from my current one, came up for sale (Freehold). I said that I intended to purchase this unit. As soon as things started to move on the new purchase, our working relationship went down hill rapidly. I have worked very hard to expand my business. I am fortunate to now employ 3 mechanics in addition to myself. I am not a vindictive person by nature but just want to be treated fairly.

I am very grateful for your continued help/guidance/thoughts on my issue.
Many thanks once again.

GT

[Crazy council]

Re: Landlords and Tenants Act 1954 (as amended) Industrial Unit

Hi

After a bit of digging. I think the following statments should help

If the ll or agent quoted anyware on any paperworked between you prior to you taking the tenancy. And that quotes the rent figure quarterly or anualy... then the ll would have an argument that it should be 3 months.

But. If thats not on any paperwork. Then your correct at one months notice.

There the straght facts. But. I think negoteating with the ll would be the best way forward. You mentioned that you were friends. And he helped out at the start. And you can tell that your a fair person by the way you have approached this. Maybe split the difference and offer him 2 months. .

Like i say. I think your correct. But if you can streach to 2 months.. you can maybe stay friendly. In business. Its friends and goodwill that can get you through the lean times..... also. He should be able to fill it within 2 months.

[tiswas01]

Re: Landlords and Tenants Act 1954 (as amended) Industrial Unit

Hi Crazy council. I am so grateful to you for your help with my query. You are an absolute star. Will give serious consideration about your suggestion of "olive branch". He is at least speaking to me now.
Many thanks again.

Graham Turner