Personally guarantee to secure payment plan and breathing spa

[Supernice123]

Morning All

i closed a business last June. It was a ltd co and we had been trading for 7 years. Issues with a major supplier.

I have 15k outstanding on a lease loan with close brothers finance, which I have personally guaranteed, and so has my mum. 2 separate agreements checked by solicitor. The PG is definitely above board.

The loan is not secured.

my mum owns a property outright and I have part ownership of property with a deed of trust agreement.

I need to submit a payment plan, and the suggested repayments are going to be low, as I am starting a new business. CB solicitor seem to think they will go for it, if we secure the loan.

I am thinking about securing against my property and asking for then to remove my mum from the whole saga.

Do you think this is a wise idea?
Would the property be safe unless there were problems with the payment plan?

the lease loan was secured against some equipment, which I surrendered.

CB is saying the equipment has no value, and there will be no deduction from my balance

i find this strange as the lease was secured against these items

Any assistance would be great as I need to submit my offer. Would you do this via a solicitor?

Thank you very much

[Supernice123]

Re: Personally guarantee to secure payment plan and breathing spa

The product was brokered through another company

[LEXUSLAWYER]

Re: Personally guarantee to secure payment plan and breathing spa

Hi SUPERNICE.

I saw you post which prompted me to join the forum as had more than a few cases concerning CB and their. PGs. Firstly what was the equipment you returned nownof nil value and what was its original worth?

I would just add securetising a payment plan for a debt that is already PGd seems a nonsense, other than the PGs are not worth the paper they are written on.

They could have been poorly crafted, taken in dubious circumstances or indeed maybe worthless as they breach the law. None of which CBs solicitor is under even the slightest duty to inform you of.

Don't rush into any agreement or security here no matter what the threats and pressure to do so entail. £15k doubtless is a worry to you, but in CBs world it is a tiny sum that you owe them. So don't be panicked or bluffed into something you will later regret, without first having established the validity of the PGs and the real options you have.

Best regards
LL

[Supernice123]

Re: Personally guarantee to secure payment plan and breathing spa

Thanks for the quick response LL. I have had the PG checked by a solicitor and it is enforceable. Both my mum and I have received a letter, saying unless we respond further action will be taken. Potential CCJ??

We returned x3 computers. Desk top and 2 laptops and a couple of card spinners. I would say value around 750-1K. Would these assets count as repayment, in the same way as a house, as they must have known the potential resale value at the time of writing the contract. I am wondering now they have repossessed, where I stand. I used a company called Nationwide to broker the loan.

We cannot keep up to the original payment plan, so I wanted to ask to pay less. Do you think I should make an original offer based on current income, without any security to start the negotiation?

Any assistance would be great. I am appreciative

Thanks Lou

Hi SUPERNICE.

I saw you post which prompted me to join the forum as had more than a few cases concerning CB and their. PGs. Firstly what was the equipment you returned nownof nil value and what was its original worth?

I would just add securetising a payment plan for a debt that is already PGd seems a nonsense, other than the PGs are not worth the paper they are written on.

They could have been poorly crafted, taken in dubious circumstances or indeed maybe worthless as they breach the law. None of which CBs solicitor is under even the slightest duty to inform you of.

Don't rush into any agreement or security here no matter what the threats and pressure to do so entail. £15k doubtless is a worry to you, but in CBs world it is a tiny sum that you owe them. So don't be panicked or bluffed into something you will later regret, without first having established the validity of the PGs and the real options you have.

Best regards
LL

[LEXUSLAWYER]

Re: Personally guarantee to secure payment plan and breathing spa

Sadly, there is no mileage in questioning knowledge of resale values at the time of entering into the agreement. It is not CBs duty to assess the value of the equipment at some future date, just in case the deal goes bad.

I suggest that you were happy with the original deal otherwise you would not have signed up for it!

In any event, the value of S/H computers is generally taken to be about zero, as there is so much used, insolvency and finance company snatch-back hardware on the market. Add to that the cost of security cleaning the hard drive prior to sale. to ensure no third party docs or licensed software is left on the machine.

How long is there left on the agreement? What is the total amount outstanding? How much are the present monthly payments? How much can you afford to pay monthly? How much would you like to pay monthly?

It's very easy to look at a PG and say it's binding. But that assumes it was actually taken in accordance with a very strict set of regulations

Guarantee law is a very complicated area. For instance is your PG a commercial agreement or a deed? Does it fall within consumer sales regulations? Where was it physically signed? Was your mother given any advice before signing? And these are just a few basic questions.....

For example, I recently dealt with a case where a director of a liquidated company that was being pursued by the company's bankers for £75k. The director concerned had been told by no less than three firms of solicitors the PG was valid and he would have to pay up.

After some in depth investigation and case law research. I managed to put together a water-tight defence and the Bank eventually dropped proceedings and agreed to pay our costs on the afternoon prior to the commencement of the trial.

So, although guarantees can appear binding at first sight....that may not always be the case.

From experience, you stand more chance of finding loopholes in your PG or the circumstances in which it was taken, such that might invalidate the whole contract, rather than try to launch a counter-claim based on the value of the equipment to reduce what you owe.

Unlikely CB will take you and mum to County Court, they just want payment and there letters are designed to frighten you into prompt payment or agreeing an arrangement.

By the way who suggested a repayment plan with CB should be secured?

Best regards
LL

Thanks for the quick response LL. I have had the PG checked by a solicitor and it is enforceable. Both my mum and I have received a letter, saying unless we respond further action will be taken. Potential CCJ??

We returned x3 computers. Desk top and 2 laptops and a couple of card spinners. I would say value around 750-1K. Would these assets count as repayment, in the same way as a house, as they must have known the potential resale value at the time of writing the contract. I am wondering now they have repossessed, where I stand. I used a company called Nationwide to broker the loan.

We cannot keep up to the original payment plan, so I wanted to ask to pay less. Do you think I should make an original offer based on current income, without any security to start the negotiation?

Any assistance would be great. I am appreciative

Thanks Lou

[Supernice123]

Re: Personally guarantee to secure payment plan and breathing spa

Hi

Thanks for your help. I have answered your questions below. Can we take this into a private message. I have a copy of the contract. Thank You

How long is there left on the agreement? What is the total amount outstanding? How much are the present monthly payments? How much can you afford to pay monthly? How much would you like to pay monthly?

----There is 2.5 years left on the agreement. £15K outstanding. At the moment I can afford to pay around £30 a month, but this will change in the near future.The monthly payment was £500+VAT

It's very easy to look at a PG and say it's binding. But that assumes it was actually taken in accordance with a very strict set of regulations

----- I signed at my business premises and my mother who is a pensioner signed in her own home.

Guarantee law is a very complicated area. For instance is your PG a commercial agreement or a deed? Does it fall within consumer sales regulations? Where was it physically signed? Was your mother given any advice before signing? And these are just a few basic questions.....

For example, I recently dealt with a case where a director of a liquidated company that was being pursued by the company's bankers for £75k. The director concerned had been told by no less than three firms of solicitors the PG was valid and he would have to pay up.

After some in depth investigation and case law research. I managed to put together a water-tight defence and the Bank eventually dropped proceedings and agreed to pay our costs on the afternoon prior to the commencement of the trial.

So, although guarantees can appear binding at first sight....that may not always be the case.

From experience, you stand more chance of finding loopholes in your PG or the circumstances in which it was taken, such that might invalidate the whole contract, rather than try to launch a counter-claim based on the value of the equipment to reduce what you owe.

Unlikely CB will take you and mum to County Court, they just want payment and there letters are designed to frighten you into prompt payment or agreeing an arrangement.

By the way who suggested a repayment plan with CB should be secured?

------CB solicitor in a phone call

Best regards
LL

[LEXUSLAWYER]

Re: Personally guarantee to secure payment plan and breathing spa

Hi Supernice,

No problem about taking this private...but forums are something in the past I have read rather than participated in. As explained earlier it was only interest in your matter that prompted me to join this one. So excuse my ignorance but you will need to explain how we turn this into private correspondence. I look forward to your as ice, thank you.

Hi

Thanks for your help. I have answered your questions below. Can we take this into a private message. I have a copy of the contract. Thank You

How long is there left on the agreement? What is the total amount outstanding? How much are the present monthly payments? How much can you afford to pay monthly? How much would you like to pay monthly?

----There is 2.5 years left on the agreement. £15K outstanding. At the moment I can afford to pay around £30 a month, but this will change in the near future.The monthly payment was £500+VAT

It's very easy to look at a PG and say it's binding. But that assumes it was actually taken in accordance with a very strict set of regulations

----- I signed at my business premises and my mother who is a pensioner signed in her own home.

Guarantee law is a very complicated area. For instance is your PG a commercial agreement or a deed? Does it fall within consumer sales regulations? Where was it physically signed? Was your mother given any advice before signing? And these are just a few basic questions.....

For example, I recently dealt with a case where a director of a liquidated company that was being pursued by the company's bankers for £75k. The director concerned had been told by no less than three firms of solicitors the PG was valid and he would have to pay up.

After some in depth investigation and case law research. I managed to put together a water-tight defence and the Bank eventually dropped proceedings and agreed to pay our costs on the afternoon prior to the commencement of the trial.

So, although guarantees can appear binding at first sight....that may not always be the case.

From experience, you stand more chance of finding loopholes in your PG or the circumstances in which it was taken, such that might invalidate the whole contract, rather than try to launch a counter-claim based on the value of the equipment to reduce what you owe.

Unlikely CB will take you and mum to County Court, they just want payment and there letters are designed to frighten you into prompt payment or agreeing an arrangement.

By the way who suggested a repayment plan with CB should be secured?

------CB solicitor in a phone call

Best regards
LL

[Supernice123]

Re: Personally guarantee to secure payment plan and breathing spa

If you go to My Messages you will see your inbox

Thanks

[Amethyst]

Re: Personally guarantee to secure payment plan and breathing spa

We do not encourage discussion on specific issues via pm for obvious security and safety reasons. If there's odd details needed to be able to help that can't be posted publicly that's fine but generally the responses should be in the public forum. If you are concerned about privacy then we do have the VIP forum which enables you to talk more freely than in the public forums.

[Supernice123]

Re: Personally guarantee to secure payment plan and breathing spa

Sorry will keep it on the forum. First time. i think the website is amazing. THANK YOU

We do not encourage discussion on specific issues via pm for obvious security and safety reasons. If there's odd details needed to be able to help that can't be posted publicly that's fine but generally the responses should be in the public forum. If you are concerned about privacy then we do have the VIP forum which enables you to talk more freely than in the public forums.

[LEXUSLAWYER]

Re: Personally guarantee to secure payment plan and breathing spa

Hello again,

Thanks for your message...the firm you found on the big G is not me. One quick question if I may before any further discussion.

Before signing these so-called guarantee agreements, did either the seller or CB point out to either or both of you, that you should seek independent legal advice regards the guarantees before signing them?

Or was there a waiver box at top or bottom of the agreement stating that you had been recommended to take independent legal advice and chosen to proceed anyway without that advice.....(or something very similar) that you and mum signed along with the agreement?

Please advise as this will determine to a very great extent how this matter can be defended, even if as you say, you have both signed what appear as bona fide binding guarantees.

For your further information, I am semi-retired as have fibromyalgia which some days is far too painful for me to travel to and from an office. So I
just take a select few cases a year, that I can deal with by phone, letter, fax and email and in the event of case going to Court...even then the majority of any litigation these days is done by telephone or electronically, but should a hearing be the result I use a colleague as an agent or for more serious matters appoint counsel to attend and I am based on the borders of Buckinghamshire, Oxfordshire and Northamptonshire. 10 minutes from M40, 15 minutes from M1 and 50 minutes by train into London and the same time from Birmingham.

Regards
LL

[Supernice123]

Re: Personally guarantee to secure payment plan and breathing spa

Hi LL

will check the document tonight. Have typed my offer to CB as I have to send something in the morning. So would be good to check first.

sorry to hear of your health complications. Your assistance is greatly appreciated

Lou

Hello again,

Thanks for your message...the firm you found on the big G is not me. One quick question if I may before any further discussion.

Before signing these so-called guarantee agreements, did either the seller or CB point out to either or both of you, that you should seek independent legal advice regards the guarantees before signing them?

Or was there a waiver box at top or bottom of the agreement stating that you had been recommended to take independent legal advice and chosen to proceed anyway without that advice.....(or something very similar) that you and mum signed along with the agreement?

Please advise as this will determine to a very great extent how this matter can be defended, even if as you say, you have both signed what appear as bona fide binding guarantees.

For your further information, I am semi-retired as have fibromyalgia which some days is far too painful for me to travel to and from an office. So I
just take a select few cases a year, that I can deal with by phone, letter, fax and email and in the event of case going to Court...even then the majority of any litigation these days is done by telephone or electronically, but should a hearing be the result I use a colleague as an agent or for more serious matters appoint counsel to attend and I am based on the borders of Buckinghamshire, Oxfordshire and Northamptonshire. 10 minutes from M40, 15 minutes from M1 and 50 minutes by train into London and the same time from Birmingham.

Regards
LL

[LEXUSLAWYER]

Re: Personally guarantee to secure payment plan and breathing spa

Hi LL

will check the document tonight. Have typed my offer to CB as I have to send something in the morning. So would be good to check first.

sorry to hear of your health complications. Your assistance is greatly appreciated

Lou

Hi

Let me have the info, I'll check it late on or overnight when up for a coffee and painkillers and let you have some advice by the mornig.

LL

[Supernice123]

Re: Personally guarantee to secure payment plan and breathing spa

Hi LL

Thank you so much. I enclose all signed docs. i have taken out our names etc. I can't see any mention of legal advice, or a waiver of any description

Would be great to have your views, and thanks for considering me. It's a minefield

Lou

[LEXUSLAWYER]

Re: Personally guarantee to secure payment plan and breathing spa

Hi LL

Thank you so much. I enclose all signed docs. i have taken out our names etc. I can't see any mention of legal advice, or a waiver of any description

Would be great to have your views, and thanks for considering me. It's a minefield

Lou

Sorry, there is no doubt that CB have got you tied up "Belt & Braces"on these agreements. If they are not satisfied with your offer I suspect they will go for County Court Judgments and followed by Charging Orders over your own and mum's property interests for added security.

Which means if they get the Charging Orders and you fall down on the repayment agreement, they can move to recovering what they are owed from sale of one or both properties.

I think all you can do is make an offer based on what you can afford now and offer to let them review it every quarter. So that if you do get a job or get startedagain and afford to pay it off at a greater rate there is an option to increase payments.

I wish you all good luck.

Regards
LL